# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/721 "2016-03-25T13:35:19Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > …Hint: If it were the useful term we’ve all been waiting for, as you claim it to be, it’d have caught on by now. There are lots of words in my vocabulary that I only pull out every year or so. “Klister”, “arthropod”, “cambium”, … Just because they don’t describe concepts I talk about every day doesn’t mean they aren’t useful words. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/722 "2016-03-25T14:54:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not comparable, because there’s another equally-descriptive term that means the same thing and which members of that party prefer. What’s the preferred term for “cisgender”? And don’t tell me it’s “normal”, because while I am cisgender, I am most assuredly not normal, and in fact take mild offense at that. “Straight” comes to mind, that word is not inherently offensive to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/723 "2016-03-25T15:14:56Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > “Straight” comes to mind, that word is not inherently offensive to anyone. But its accepted meaning in everyday speech is “heterosexual”, and you can be that and transgender. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/724 "2016-03-25T15:49:24Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But its accepted meaning in everyday speech is “heterosexual”, and you can be that and transgender. Thus the problems with any labels … they’re never adequate, always divisive and provide futile ground for hatred … and we need to agree on what these labels mean. I have no way of knowing what the term “straight” means where you live, here it means masculine chromosynoptic males lovin’ on feminine chromosynoptic females or vice-versa. The next block over may well think differently. This is my main objection to “cisgender”, we don’t need any more divisions between us, hard enough destroying what divisions we already have. Second, it sounds like a nonsense word someone like Lewis Carroll would invent … “Perhaps Looking-glass milk isn’t good to drink”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/725 "2016-03-25T15:59:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Out of curiosity, how do you react when folks say _“the Democrat party”_ isn’t the term they prefer? Do you tell them they’re irrational, add that there’s nothing inherently insulting about that word, and say they should feel free to offer up an explanation? Or do you just note their preference and move on? I think that if there’s anything that could drive me to vote for Donald Trump, it’d be listening to Democrats whinge on about “Democrat Party.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/726 "2016-03-25T16:00:03Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I have no way of knowing what the term “straight” means where you live, here it means masculine chromosynoptic males lovin’ on feminine chromosynoptic females or vice-versa. The next block over may well think differently. I don’t know where you live, but I can pretty much guarantee you that’s not what “straight” means there. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/727 "2016-03-25T16:17:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t know where you live, but I can pretty much guarantee you that’s not what “straight” means there. Thank you for the perfect example … just more divisions _within_ a single word. Let’s use the word “normal”, and apply it to everyone … as though it is “normal” for everyone to be different. There’s only one label that describes you properly … “Miller” … all others just short change you and are grossly inadequate. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/728 "2016-03-25T16:34:15Z")
There may be _two_ things that could make me vote Trump… ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/729 "2016-03-25T17:03:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There may be _two_ things that could make me vote Trump… Send me a dollar and I’ll vote for someone else, I promise. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/730 "2016-03-25T17:14:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There may be _two_ things that could make me vote Trump… C’mon man, there’s like, just one race, the human race . . . dig it? It’s a great big garden full of different flowers and they’re all the same in unique ways! And dude, you’re Bogarting the bong! 😉 CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/731 "2016-03-25T17:18:39Z")
What exactly is “chromosynoptic” supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/732 "2016-03-25T17:25:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There may be _two_ things that could make me vote Trump… _hits bongos harder_ ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/733 "2016-03-25T17:27:23Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > What exactly is “chromosynoptic” supposed to mean? Five results on Google . . . all this thread! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/734 "2016-03-25T17:28:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not comparable, because there’s another equally-descriptive term that means the same thing and which members of that party prefer. What’s the preferred term for “cisgender”? And don’t tell me it’s “normal”, because while I am cisgender, I am most assuredly not normal, and in fact take mild offense at that. Why would you take offense at being called ‘normal’? Is there something inherently wrong with being called ‘normal’? Does a majority of society consider being called ‘normal’ offensive? Were ‘normal’ people persecuted throughout history for their normalness? Most importantly, does it pass Miller’s “Test of Offensiveness”? If not, then you have no reason to take any offense at being called normal, mild or otherwise. You should just suck it up and get over it. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/735 "2016-03-25T18:51:51Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Five results on Google . . . all this thread! > > CMC fnord! It’s a gift … ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/736 "2016-03-25T20:26:23Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > … as though it is “normal” for everyone to be different. Well, since reality IS that everyone is different, yes, the differences ARE “normal”. We know why “normal” is unacceptable for the cis/het/ablebodied/neurotypical/majorityaveragewhatever. Because of the history, already hinted at earlier in discussing a compound word, of the word having transformed from meaning “that which is the usual” into meaning “that which is good and right” – and that in turn leading to what’s “abnormal” being seen as something to be corrected, prevented, isolated or eradicated. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/737 "2016-03-26T14:42:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Great. What’s your purpose in this thread, then? Um… replying to your questions so far. > [@Miller](#): > > You’re “reasoning” is that a word, which you admit you hardly ever have heard used at all, has been used in an insulting fashion. Yes. That and the other things I’ve repeated about fifty times by now which I won’t repeat anymore because it’s just damn embarrassing for you by now. Yes that is my “reasoning” for why I personally chose to use different words to identify myself (so clever how you put the condescending apostrophes there!). > [@Miller](#): > > Have you considered that, perhaps, the few times you’ve encountered this very rare word do not represent a large enough sample to draw conclusions about its normal usage? In this very, very long thread, dozens of people have been using cisgender in a non-pejorative sense. Does this thread alter your perceptions at all? If not, why do you weight the usage by members of the “asshole brigade” (as you termed them) above the non-asshole usage in this thread? Honestly the only thing I’m thinking now is that my contempt for the word has grown far stronger after this thread, as it reeks of the typical modern-day liberal condescending pushy arrogance that I’ve grown numb towards by now. You’re probably not even aware of it which is the funny/sad part, but maybe seeing how many minds you’ve changed overall might give you a clue. > [@Miller](#): > > I’d also argue that you’re wrong when you say that most words people take offense at are not inherently offensive. Most of the words people take offense at are things like “asshole,” “motherfucker,” “idiot,” “faggot,” “nigger,” and so forth - words that have no positive or neutral connotations, at least when applied to human beings. Tranny, oriental, negro, jap, whatever are terms that are not inherently offensive but are deemed such because of context in which they evolved. You said I should have no problem with cisgender because it is not inherently offensive in and of itself by definition. Lots of offensive words aren’t inherently offensive. End of story. You naming words that are does nothing for me. > [@Miller](#): > > I don’t necessarily understand why someone would take offense at it. If they mentioned their offense here on the SDMB, in a forum called “Great Debates,” I might ask them to justify their offense. Apparently, this is “liberal bullying” in your book. Since asking you just to defend your position is, in your eyes, some sort of an attack, I’m wondering again, what exactly do you expect out of this thread? > You’re aware that the term was first coined in 1998? In German? Yeah, it takes a little while for words to enter the popular lexicon. Particularly words which, as has been emphasized again and again in this thread, are not ones that are necessary for daily usage. “Cisgender” is helpful in the very narrow context of discussing transgender issues. Nobody at all has argued that its something that would be in regular usage, or that people should be required to adopt it as a self-identifier. In 999 out of a thousand interactions, for trans and cis people alike, “man” or “woman” is sufficient identifying information. It’s that thousandth interaction where the term is invaluable. > > If you don’t care about that thousandth interaction, fine. Great. Bully for you. Since this thread is about that thousandth interaction, I ask once more: Why are you in this thread? Alright I’m cutting this short cause I’m just talking past you by now. I’m sorry my “reasoning” didn’t pass your test and I have not gotten your permission to have negative feelings about a word. My decision to personally use other words instead to describe the same thing displeases you. Maybe a few more arrogant condescending jabs will do the trick and make me see the error of my ways? Perhaps, we’ll never know, cause I don’t know what “my purpose” is in this thread and I’m off… ta! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/738 "2016-03-26T15:30:22Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > Honestly the only thing I’m thinking now is that my contempt for the word has grown far stronger after this thread, as it reeks of the typical modern-day liberal condescending pushy arrogance that I’ve grown numb towards by now. You’re probably not even aware of it which is the funny/sad part, but maybe seeing how many minds you’ve changed overall might give you a clue. You really sure you want to keep harping on the “liberal” thing in this particular thread? Because it says something not wholly flattering about you that you’re so incensed by “liberal arrogance” on LGBT rights but, apparently, unconcerned by [conservative](http://www.hrc.org/blog/ted-cruz-continues-his-attack-on-transgender-school-children) [naked](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/24/north-carolina-anti-transgender-bathroom-law-dangerous-discrimination) [hatred](http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/12/16/marco-rubios-america-would-be-hell-lgbt-people). Yeah, it’s terrible that someone was pushy to you on the Internet. Clearly, you’re the real victim here. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/739 "2016-03-26T18:22:09Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > Tranny, oriental, negro, jap, whatever are terms that are not inherently offensive but are deemed such because of context in which they evolved. You said I should have no problem with cisgender because it is not inherently offensive in and of itself by definition. Lots of offensive words aren’t inherently offensive. End of story. You naming words that are does nothing for me. That’s true enough. But it does bring up another point, which is that in all of those cases, there were multiple words with the same meaning, and one of them became the one that was freighted with prejudice and hatred, for whatever reason. That is, you could have described Asian people as “Asian” or “Oriental”, and due some societal or historical factors, “Oriental” became the one that was offensive. Whereas, “Cisgender” is literally the only word that exists that means what it means. (“Non-transsexual” is obviously similar, but not quite the same). So sure, every time that someone wants to say something offensive about people-whose-identified-gender-matches-their-birth-gender they will use “Cisgender”. But so will people who are discussing gender issues in a completely value-neutral setting. So will people talking about white straight cisgendered privilege. It’s literally the only choice. Something that might well happen in the future, but which certainly has not happened yet, is that “Cis” might become the offensive version, with “Cisgender” remaining the neutral version. Shortenings are often used derogatorily, ie, “Jap” for “Japanese”. But I don’t see real evidence that that has happened so far. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/740 "2016-03-26T18:53:52Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > … > Whereas, “Cisgender” is literally the only word that exists that means what it means. (“Non-transsexual” is obviously similar, but not quite the same). So sure, every time that someone wants to say something offensive about people-whose-identified-gender-matches-their-birth-gender they will use “Cisgender”. But so will people who are discussing gender issues in a completely value-neutral setting. So will people talking about white straight cisgendered privilege. It’s literally the only choice. > … That’s the point i was clumsily trying to make. Although in practice, the word i hear spoken is “cis”. But i don’t think anyone here has tried to distinguish between then in terms of offensiveness. It’s hard not to think that the offense is somewhere in the idea that you need to consider the possibility of trans. But i have learned from this thread that several apparently reasonable people are uncomfortable with “cis”. I’ll probably be more cautious about using it it “mixed company” going forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=38)