# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/741 "2016-03-26T19:27:48Z")
Here’s an example, just now copied from my Facebook feed (edited to remove personal details) of how i see “cis” being used: “Coming out last night to my group of friends mostly went really well in large part due to B-- who prepped the group for me. Someone in the group who came late (and thus missed the prepping) thought that my new name was a joke of some sort and yelled WHAT?!? when they heard it. They later apologized. But, several other people made a point of using my new name and one came up to me and hugged me and told me I was welcome which was lovely and very sweet of them to do. That was the first time I have come out to a group of cis people in a space not explicitly altsex. A big milestone for me.” I guess he could have used “Non-transgendered”, but that seems awkward. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/742 "2016-03-26T20:02:09Z")
And BTW the abbreviating to just “cis” is symmetrical to what I have observed in the accepted usage of “trans”. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/743 "2016-03-26T20:33:32Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And BTW the abbreviating to just “cis” is symmetrical to what I have observed in the accepted usage of “trans”. Right. Logically and linguistically, the terms are exactly equal. Which, I must conclude, is really the problem for some people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/744 "2016-03-26T21:04:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > > [@JRDelirious](#): > > > > And BTW the abbreviating to just “cis” is symmetrical to what I have observed in the accepted usage of “trans”. > > Right. Logically and linguistically, the terms are exactly equal. Hmm. Do you figure “trans” and “non-trans” mirror each other? > [@](#): > > Which, I must conclude, is really the problem for some people. Really? That’s the only possible conclusion you can reach? (Sorry; _must_ reach?) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/745 "2016-03-26T21:38:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Hmm. Do you figure “trans” and “non-trans” mirror each other? They are mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive, if that’s what you mean. That’s not the same as being equal. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Really? That’s the only possible conclusion you can reach? (Sorry; _must_ reach?) I have seen none else here that is not laughable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/746 "2016-03-26T22:34:31Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I have seen none else here that is not laughable. Well, that’s the difference between us, I guess; if someone says they’d prefer to be described with one term instead of another, I don’t deride their stated explanations as laughable, or insist that something else must be the _real_ explanation; I just defer to reasonable requests without pressing for – or castigating – the mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/747 "2016-03-27T00:43:42Z")
Not everyone can afford that kind of trust. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/748 "2016-03-27T03:46:26Z")
The explanation I found laughable is the “hissing sound” one upthread. Otherwise, I don’t see much in the way of explanations at all–just the preference. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/749 "2016-03-27T03:55:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Well, that’s the difference between us, I guess; if someone says they’d prefer to be described with one term instead of another, I don’t deride their stated explanations as laughable, or insist that something else must be the _real_ explanation; I just defer to reasonable requests without pressing for – or castigating – the mindset. I don’t know about that. If one black guy said he preferred “black” and another said he preferred “African-American”, I would do my best to accede to both requests, because I know enough about that situation in general to know that there are reasonable and substantial arguments for both of those positions. If another one insisted that both “black” and “African-American” were offensive, and he only wanted to be called “TransNubian”, well, I might honor that request and I might not. I would certainly not take that request as seriously, at least, not without some sort of explanation. And that’s particularly true if the group is a group I happen to be in. That is, if someone who is black says that they have a good reason to prefer TransNubian, well, who am I to judge. Whereas I am myself cisgendered, so I feel that I have more right to evaluate the reasonableness of such a request from someone else who is cisgendered. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/750 "2016-03-27T03:55:35Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The explanation I found laughable is the “hissing sound” one upthread. Otherwise, I don’t see much in the way of explanations at all–just the preference. So the “Only ever heard it used in negative or dismissve contexts” isn’t an explanation for why people don’t like having the term applied to them? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/751 "2016-03-27T03:59:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > So the “Only ever heard it used in negative or dismissve contexts” isn’t an explanation for why people don’t like having the term applied to them? No one participating in this thread can now make that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/752 "2016-03-27T04:00:46Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > No one participating in this thread can now make that claim. I’ve made it several times and I don’t recall seeing anything in the thread recently to indicate why I’m not allowed to make the claim that I’ve only ever encountered the term being used in a negative context. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/753 "2016-03-27T04:23:29Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve made it several times and I don’t recall seeing anything in the thread recently to indicate why I’m not allowed to make the claim that I’ve only ever encountered the term being used in a negative context. Here is a neutral example, of a person talking about his cis friends. Bolding and color added, since apparently no one noticed it the first time I posted this: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Here’s an example, just now copied from my Facebook feed (edited to remove personal details) of how i see “cis” being used: > > “Coming out last night to my group of friends mostly went really well in large part due to B-- who prepped the group for me. Someone in the group who came late (and thus missed the prepping) thought that my new name was a joke of some sort and yelled WHAT?!? when they heard it. They later apologized. But, several other people made a point of using my new name and one came up to me and hugged me and told me I was welcome which was lovely and very sweet of them to do. > That was the first time I have come out to a group of **cis** people in a space not explicitly altsex. A big milestone for me.” > > I guess he could have used “Non-transgendered”, but that seems awkward. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/754 "2016-03-27T05:00:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Here is a neutral example, of a person talking about his cis friends. Bolding and color added, since apparently no one noticed it the first time I posted this: Saw that but not really applicable since I don’t know that person and I don’t know that group of people. Also, since I find being referred to as “cisgendered” or “cis” as at least mildly offensive, it’s impossible for it to be used in a “neutral” context involving me, absent some sort of academic reference. Obviously your friends are different, and that’s fine - but please don’t imply that just because it’s OK in one group of people makes it OK in all groups. I mean, where I’m from, the word “Jap” is a completely inocuous term used to refer to things or people from Japan - yet in the US, it’s apparently an appalling racist slur. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/755 "2016-03-27T05:27:48Z")
Okay – that’s very typical of how I hear the word being used. When people tell me they find it offensive, I ask, “what word should he have used instead?” I am not claiming this sort of conversation happens all the time, but it DOES happen, and it’s helpful to have a word. And I think this example gets to the root of the issue – he doesn’t want to say “the first time I came out to a group of normal people…”, because he doesn’t want to imply he is abnormal. I suppose he could say “the first time I came out as trans to a group of non-trans people…” But don’t you think that sounds odd, almost circular? Does a gay person say “the first time I came out to non-gay people”? It’s a cop-out, a missing word in the lexicon. I am happy to use some other word, but I don’t know what it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/756 "2016-03-27T05:52:21Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Okay – that’s very typical of how I hear the word being used. When people tell me they find it offensive, I ask, “what word should he have used instead?” I am not claiming this sort of conversation happens all the time, but it DOES happen, and it’s helpful to have a word. “Conventional” perhaps? Not ideal, but it doesn’t imply one state of being is “superior” to the other, at least IMO. > [@](#): > > I suppose he could say “the first time I came out as trans to a group of non-trans people…” But don’t you think that sounds odd, almost circular? No, that sounds just fine to me. Tells me that he’s come out as transexual to other members of the transexual community, but not to the other people he knows and who aren’t transexual. > [@](#): > > Does a gay person say “the first time I came out to non-gay people?” I’ve heard a couple of gay people say exactly that - again, indicating they had told other people who were gay, but not heterosexual folks. Besides, I don’t know many people who are heterosexual who have a problem being described as (and more importantly, describing themselves as) straight. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/757 "2016-03-27T13:00:22Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > …I’ve heard a couple of gay people say exactly that - again, indicating they had told other people who were gay, but not heterosexual folks. Besides, I don’t know many people who are heterosexual who have a problem being described as (and more importantly, describing themselves as) straight. And here you’ve used not one, but TWO different words for “not gay”. We can’t have even one for “not trans”? It really does make it harder to have a normal conversation about the topic when there aren’t words. Several people have mentioned hearing “cis” used derogatively. I would be curious to hear real-life examples that. I’ve only heard it used neutrally in real life, and all the derogative examples I have heard were from people who object to the whole notion of transsexuality, and who were intentionally trying to poison the well, so to speak, and were more intending to cast aspersions on the sick crazy trans people than to actually insult cis people. That’s who I have heard using “cis-scum”. (And the “scum” would make the compound derogatory with most any other word attached.) I have a sad feeling that this is the source of the negative connotations, and perhaps they have won, and have succeeded in poisoning the well. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/758 "2016-03-27T13:15:08Z")
I would not entertain the same suspicion, though. I can entirely believe there are people who have heard it used derogatorily, and those who may not have heard it exclusively so, but notice it in contexts that make them (fairly or not) uncomfortable (as in discussions of “privilege”, where we have seen the terminology rankles many) and not in strictly neutral ones. The problem comes when they react as if the term was coined to cause them gratuituous discomfort. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/759 "2016-03-27T14:11:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And here you’ve used not one, but TWO different words for “not gay”. We can’t have even one for “not trans”? It really does make it harder to have a normal conversation about the topic when there aren’t words. If you need a word for “not trans”, there’s already – “non-trans”. If you have “trans” and “non-trans”, then it seems to me the conversation is pretty easy: without anyone asking _what the heck does ‘cis’ mean_, or responding with a quick _isn’t that term derogatory_. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/760 "2016-03-27T14:42:57Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve made it several times and I don’t recall seeing anything in the thread recently to indicate why I’m not allowed to make the claim that I’ve only ever encountered the term being used in a negative context. Is this a put-on? People in this thread are using it, in this thread, other than pejoratively. I expect you have seen more such usages here than pejorative ones, ever anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=39)