# "Don't call me 'cisgender'!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 30, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903 "2015-04-30T15:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/781 "2016-03-28T23:42:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Something that might well happen in the future, but which certainly has not happened yet, is that “Cis” might become the offensive version, with “Cisgender” remaining the neutral version. Shortenings are often used derogatorily, ie, “Jap” for “Japanese”. But I don’t see real evidence that that has happened so far. Actually, that has been my observation. I have seen the word cisgendered used appropriately, it seems like a useful word that describes a useful concept. On the other side, “cis” seems to be a slur that is used primarily by morons on tumblr competing in the oppression Olympics. So I’m ok with being called cisgendered, but I don’t like being called cis. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/782 "2016-03-29T08:59:20Z")
All I can say is several posters in this thread are doing an exemplary job of reinforcing my belief that political correctness only applies to “approved” entities. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/783 "2016-03-29T13:25:29Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Why can’t you just accept the usage of the term I have encountered over the years has been mostly negative? Lacking specific examples to look at, I don’t believe the term itself _was_ used negatively in most usages you’ve encountered. I think you were predisposed to react against any new-to-you descriptive of a group you are in, because you think of yourself as a normal person, not one of those PC-labeled subcategories. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/784 "2016-03-29T14:01:26Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > All I can say is several posters in this thread are doing an exemplary job of reinforcing my belief that political correctness only applies to “approved” entities. :dubious: So, you’re saying that you **don’t** ever use the term “woman” unless you’re sure that there’s nobody around who might find it offensive because they prefer the term “womyn”? Because that’s the sort of draconian standard you apparently expect other people to adhere to. You’re claiming that “political correctness” requires not only that people: (1) refrain from using generally recognized derogatory terms, and (2) respect other individuals’ stated preferences about what terms to apply to them personally, but also (3) _refrain from **general** usage of **any** term that **any** individual states they **personally** consider derogatory._ Which is a ridiculous level of oversensitivity. Face it, **MartiniEnfield** , there is a significant difference between saying, e.g., _you shouldn’t call homosexuals “poofs”_ and saying, e.g., _you shouldn’t call adult female humans “women”_. (Note, by the way, that those objections to the term “women” are coming very much from the radical-progressive end of the spectrum, so your pouting about how only conservatives are denied “political correctness” “approval” for their terminological preferences is nonsense.) Now, **what we’re trying to find out here, as I said, is whether your objection to the term “cisgender” more closely resembles, e.g., gay people’s objection to the term “poofs” or radfems’ objection to the term “women”.** If you thought you had a leg to stand on here, logically speaking, you’d be providing cites for your claim that the term “cisgender” is **generally** considered derogatory or a slur. Since you don’t, you fall back on the typical argument-loser’s whine of _“well, even if I **did** show conclusively I was right they would just ignore me anyway”_. In the meantime, **MartiniEnfield** , you’ll notice that everyone you’re arguing here has willingly agreed to respect your **personal** preference not to have the term “cisgender” applied to you **personally**. Until and unless it can be shown that “cisgender” is **generally** regarded and used as a derogatory term, that’s all you have a right to require. Personally, as I noted above, I suspect that your objections to the term “cisgender” may spring from fuzzy-thinking conflation of the word itself with disparaging remarks alleged **about** , e.g., “white, male, heterosexual, cisgender” people in general by some individuals who don’t fit that description. You recognize that you’re being disparaged by those individuals, and you don’t think of the words “white”, “male” and “heterosexual” as disparaging terms, so you latch onto the less familiar word “cisgender” and imagine that the **word itself** is meant as an insult. Or maybe the individuals whose remarks you encountered actually **were** using the word “cisgender” as an insult in and of itself. I guess we’ll never know, since you’re refusing to provide cites. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/785 "2016-03-29T17:37:19Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > All I can say is several posters in this thread are doing an exemplary job of reinforcing my belief that political correctness only applies to “approved” entities. Exactly. Either that, or they are secretly glad they can use a slur against those with “privilege”. Odd that a polite request gets a response of “you’re a bigot for asking!”. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/786 "2016-03-29T17:40:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Face it, **MartiniEnfield** , there is a significant difference between saying, e.g., _you shouldn’t call homosexuals “poofs”_ and saying, e.g., _you shouldn’t call adult female humans “women”_. > > (Note, by the way, that those objections to the term “women” are coming very much from the radical-progressive end of the spectrum, so your pouting about how only conservatives are denied “political correctness” “approval” for their terminological preferences is nonsense.) > > Now, **what we’re trying to find out here, as I said, is whether your objection to the term “cisgender” more closely resembles, e.g., gay people’s objection to the term “poofs” or radfems’ objection to the term “women”.** Nailed it. So nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/787 "2016-03-29T18:01:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly. > > Either that, or they are secretly glad they can use a slur against those with “privilege”. > > Odd that a polite request gets a response of “you’re a bigot for asking!”. I’ve read the entire thread, and I have to believe I just got whooshed. In case I didn’t, though…who called anyone a bigot for asking not to be called “cisgender?” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/788 "2016-03-29T19:29:40Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’ve read the entire thread, and I have to believe I just got whooshed. > > In case I didn’t, though…who called anyone a bigot for asking not to be called “cisgender?” Yes. I, personally, am offended by that accusation. I don’t believe i have accused anyone of anything. I’ve merely said that i would like to continue using a word, which describes a group i an a member of, and which i find convenient and benign to use. I have even indicated a willingness to avoid using it to describe other people who share those traits with me, but who have stated a dislike to my preferred term. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/789 "2016-03-29T19:35:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Odd that a polite request gets a response of “you’re a bigot for asking!”. Except that it **hasn’t**. All the requests made on this thread to not call individual posters “cisgender” because they find the term offensive have been met with respectful compliance. When individual posters start requesting that others not use the term “cisgender” **at all** unless they’re sure that there’s nobody present who finds it offensive, that’s a different matter. That goes beyond **“avoidance of recognized slurs”** territory (inhabited by, e.g., gay people who oppose the use of the term “poof”) and into the realm of **“idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”** (where dwell, e.g., certain radical feminists who oppose the use of the term “women”). Or at least, if you’re trying to make the contrary case that “cisgender” **is** a recognized slur on the order of “poof” and suchlike, then it’s on you to provide, you know, **cites** for that claim. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/790 "2016-03-29T21:26:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Except that it **hasn’t**. All the requests made on this thread to not call individual posters “cisgender” because they find the term offensive have been met with respectful compliance. > > When individual posters start requesting that others not use the term “cisgender” **at all** unless they’re sure that there’s nobody present who finds it offensive, that’s a different matter. That goes beyond **“avoidance of recognized slurs”** territory (inhabited by, e.g., gay people who oppose the use of the term “poof”) and into the realm of **“idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”** (where dwell, e.g., certain radical feminists who oppose the use of the term “women”). > Or at least, if you’re trying to make the contrary case that “cisgender” **is** a recognized slur on the order of “poof” and suchlike, then it’s on you to provide, you know, **cites** for that claim. Well, you see, I actually have provided cites. And see, this is exactly what I mean- a polite request to avoid a slur is being mocked as “idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”. When a member of this board said “don’t use “tranny” it’s a slur” I just stopped using it- _for everyone. Not just that one person_. Nor did I demand three cites for them to “prove” it’s a slur.:rolleyes: Nor did I call them out as having “idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”.:rolleyes: \*\* They said it was offensive to them, I stopped. \*\* And since many many posters here have said it is offensive to them, you’d be hard pressed to say it’s a “_idiosyncratic extreme_-minority view”. A minority maybe, but hardly extreme minority nor idiosyncratic. Why do you\* insist \*on being rude and bigoted in your choice of terms? Why not just accept that some have politely asked, shrug your shoulders and \*\*stop. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/791 "2016-03-29T22:42:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, you see, I actually have provided cites. Yup, and **Una Persson** gave plausible reasons why your cites weren’t convincing evidence that “cisgender” is **generally** regarded as a derogatory term. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And see, this is exactly what I mean- a polite request to avoid a slur is being mocked as “idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”. Nobody is “mocking” in any way a polite request to avoid applying the word “cisgender” specifically to individuals who don’t like it. What is being questioned, and with good reason, is the very poorly-supported assertion from, e.g., you and **MartiniEnfield** that the word “cisgender” is in fact generally regarded as a “slur”. Just because you assert it doesn’t make it true. [QUOTE=DrDeth] When a member of this board said “don’t use “tranny” it’s a slur” I just stopped using it- _for everyone. Not just that one person_. [/quote] **And when a radical feminist says to you “don’t use ‘woman’ it’s offensive”, do you “just stop using” that word too? _For everyone? Not just that one person?_** Your continued tap-dancing around the issue by refusing to address that straightforward and highly relevant point is seriously damaging your claims to have your complaints taken seriously here. [QUOTE=DrDeth] And since many many posters here have said it is offensive to them, you’d be hard pressed to say it’s a “_idiosyncratic extreme_-minority view”. A minority maybe, but hardly extreme minority nor idiosyncratic. [/quote] “Many many”? Really? How “many many”, exactly? Note also that there are even “many many-er” posters strongly asserting that they personally are perfectly fine with the term “cisgender” and know of no reason to consider it a derogatory term. Which is not at all the case with widely recognized slurs like “tranny” and “poof”. [QUOTE=DrDeth] Why do you\* insist \*on being rude and bigoted in your choice of terms? Why not just accept that some have politely asked, shrug your shoulders and \*\*stop. \*\* [/QUOTE] Like I said, if some radical feminists politely ask you to stop using the term “women”, will you just shrug your shoulders and stop using that word henceforth? _For everyone?_ And if not, how do you justify being so rude and bigoted? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/792 "2016-03-29T22:42:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, you see, I actually have provided cites. > > And see, this is exactly what I mean- a polite request to avoid a slur is being mocked as “idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”. > > When a member of this board said “don’t use “tranny” it’s a slur” I just stopped using it- _for everyone. Not just that one person_. Nor did I demand three cites for them to “prove” it’s a slur.:rolleyes: Nor did I call them out as having “idiosyncratic extreme-minority views”.:rolleyes: > \*\* > They said it was offensive to them, I stopped. \*\* > > And since many many posters here have said it is offensive to them, you’d be hard pressed to say it’s a “_idiosyncratic extreme_-minority view”. A minority maybe, but hardly extreme minority nor idiosyncratic. > > Why do you\* insist \*on being rude and bigoted in your choice of terms? Why not just accept that some have politely asked, shrug your shoulders and \*\*stop. \*\* I don’t use it for you and others who have expressed this preference, but _since I am cis and have the same experience of matching gender ID/biological sex as you or anyone else_, then (unlike “tranny”, “dyke”, “fag”, and the like) I’m able to use my own experience as an input as much as the experience of others for determining the use of this word. Since cis isn’t offensive to me _as a cis person_, and since based on what I know it’s not offensive to the vast majority of people whose gender ID matches their biological sex, and because there’s no other word that fulfills the same purpose (non-transgender and straight mean different things), then I will continue to use it in those very limited circumstances that it’s useful. That’s why it’s _wholly_ different from my approach for other slurs: a single transgender person says “don’t use tranny”, and I won’t use it for anyone – I’m not trans and I can’t have that experience or know what it’s like. But my gender ID matches my biological sex, so I can and do have that experience, and I can and do know what it’s like, and therefore your input is no more valuable or meaningful than mine for this particular word. I do you the courtesy of not calling you that because you’ve asked, but that’s it – that’s all you get, since your experience is no more significant in this category than mine. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/793 "2016-03-29T22:46:32Z")
And the times when “cis” comes up in conversation are pretty limited. Mostly it only happens in theoretical discussions like this one, and when talking to a trans person. It’s not as if i am shouting it in the mall where you are likely to be walking by. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/794 "2016-03-29T23:38:30Z")
Only a cisgender [can call another](https://youtu.be/KVN_0qvuhhw?t=46) cisgender cisgender. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/795 "2016-03-29T23:42:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And since many many posters here have said it is offensive to them, you’d be hard pressed to say it’s a “_idiosyncratic extreme_-minority view”. A minority maybe, but hardly extreme minority nor idiosyncratic. Pity me, for I have just completed a long and excruciatingly boring quick read through of this thread to see if I could count up the number of posters who find “cisgender” or derivative offensive. These are all the people I could find who explicitly declared that they found being personally referred to as “cisgender” offensive (bearing in mind that this is not the same as those who found the word itself offensive regardless of who it was being applied to, but I’m not sure how to parse **DrDeth** ’s statement best); **The Joker and the Thief Novelty Bobble DrDeth** himself **Martini Enfield phantom limb** Like I said, boring and quick, so if I missed anyone out or included someone when I shouldn’t have, I apologise. Five doesn’t really seem like “many many”, though as the statement is qualified just as “posters” it could well be that **DrDeth** is referring to posters in threads other than this one. I also make a rough count of 95 unique posters in this particular thread; opinions may vary as to whether 5%~ is an extreme minority. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/796 "2016-03-29T23:52:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t use it for you and others who have expressed this preference, but _since I am cis and have the same experience of matching gender ID/biological sex as you or anyone else_, then (unlike “tranny”, “dyke”, “fag”, and the like) I’m able to use my own experience as an input as much as the experience of others for determining the use of this word. Since cis isn’t offensive to me _as a cis person_, and since based on what I know it’s not offensive to the vast majority of people whose gender ID matches their biological sex, and because there’s no other word that fulfills the same purpose (non-transgender and straight mean different things), then I will continue to use it in those very limited circumstances that it’s useful. > > That’s why it’s _wholly_ different from my approach for other slurs: a single transgender person says “don’t use tranny”, and I won’t use it for anyone – I’m not trans and I can’t have that experience or know what it’s like. But my gender ID matches my biological sex, so I can and do have that experience, and I can and do know what it’s like, and therefore your input is no more valuable or meaningful than mine for this particular word. I do you the courtesy of not calling you that because you’ve asked, but that’s it – that’s all you get, since your experience is no more significant in this category than mine. This would suggest that you would stop using “woman” if I said it offended me. I hope that isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/797 "2016-03-30T00:03:42Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This would suggest that you would stop using “woman” if I said it offended me. I hope that isn’t true. No, probably not – I know lots and lots of women, and I don’t know lots and lots of trans people, so I’d have more opportunity to get a variety of opinions. I should have added that sort of nuance in my post – thanks for pointing it out and making me a better poster! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/798 "2016-03-30T00:46:28Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Pity me, for I have just completed a long and excruciatingly boring quick read through of this thread to see if I could count up the number of posters who find “cisgender” or derivative offensive. These are all the people I could find who explicitly declared that they found being personally referred to as “cisgender” offensive… there’s also **the other waldo pepper** (i think that’s his name) who said he preferred to be called not trans. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/799 "2016-03-30T00:48:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > there’s also **the other waldo pepper** (i think that’s his name) who said he preferred to be called not trans. There were some who said they preferred another option, due to aesthetic or linguistic or alternative reasons, but I only counted people who actually found it offensive. If **TOWP** said that and I missed it, then by all means add him to the number. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903/800 "2016-03-30T00:54:49Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > There were some who said they preferred another option, due to aesthetic or linguistic or alternative reasons, but I only counted people who actually found it offensive. If **TOWP** said that and I missed it, then by all means add him to the number. I don’t find it offensive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-me-cisgender/718903.md?page=41)