# Don't call your mother "she" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057 "2009-08-02T14:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/61 "2009-08-03T20:43:02Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > I got this too. I always wondered where the expression “The cat’s mother” came from. > > Did everyone who had this expression used on them even have cats?? I googled around about this last night since I’ve never heard this expression, and the best I could come up with that sounded plausible is that a female cat is called a “she-cat,” so “she” might refer to “the cat’s mother.” It’s a little sketchy (I always thought female cats (especially mothers) were called "queens), but it’s the best I could come up with. Since it seemed to originate in the UK, maybe “she-cat” is a more British expression. ---
**Author:** ![Jelly\_Roll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Jelly\_Roll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jelly_Roll)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/62 "2009-08-03T21:28:52Z")
My husband grew up in south Texas and I grew up in middle Tennessee and we both remember getting in trouble for referring to our mothers as “she.” My husband also remembers getting in trouble for calling his mom “her” and I was grounded for calling my mom “your wife” when complaining about my mother to my dad. Of course, it probably had more to do with our tones at the time-we both admit we were being sassy. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/63 "2009-08-03T23:39:20Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > How odd. I never experienced this. Those of you who did, did you get rebuked for something like the following: > > “Do you know where your mother is?” > “Yeah, she went to the store.” > > If not, I imagine it’s a partially-respect and partially-grammar thing. If so, then…I got nothing, because that’s just loony. I’ve been racking my brains for a specific memory of what I’d said to trigger the cat’s mother thing all I’ve got is a sense of indignation that it sometimes happened when I thought I was using the pronoun rule correctly like in the example above but the adults didn’t think so. We (my big brother and I) never took it too seriously just filed it under weird things they say. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Salt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@Bacon\_Salt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Salt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/64 "2009-08-03T23:53:54Z")
I grew up in the '90s in Texas and it was disrespectful to call my stepmom “she” if she was in the same room. Not so much if she was elsewhere and the context was clear. That was probably to enforce the idea that she was to be respected just as much as Dad, though. I thought it was stupid then but it makes sense now. ETA: Nothing about cats, though. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/65 "2009-08-04T01:19:17Z")
I got a clip around the ear for calling my mother ‘she’. I think it was all in the tone, though. And cats were definitely mentioned. I’m not from New York, or even the US, so this ‘cat’s mother’ thing is a widespread phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/66 "2009-08-04T02:36:10Z")
Never heard of such a thing. NYC born, Nassau County (LI) bred. Parents from Queens/Brooklyn. All granparents from Brooklyn/Bronx. Lived in NJ for the past 15 years. Don’t know any cats’ mothers. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/67 "2009-08-04T02:53:38Z")
My dad said this several times. He was a Depression kid from Appalachia. Come to think of it, he never referred to my mom as “Mom” or “your mom” – always “your mother.” But I never heard of this “cat’s mother” thing. ---
**Author:** ![InLucemEdita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7ab992/32.png) [@InLucemEdita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InLucemEdita)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/68 "2009-08-04T04:01:52Z")
**Bacon Salt** and **sleeping** have gotten to the crux of this issue in my understanding. It is about referring to people in the third person _when they are in your presence_. It is rude to do so, because you are not acknowledging their presence in the room. It is particularly egregious (lord, this is never egregious) when the third person pronoun is at the beginning of the sentence or conversation. If you have already acknowledged them by stating their name or title earlier, and thereby recognizing that they are part of the conversation, then you are free to use the pronoun. So if Mom is out of the room…you could point at a picture of her and say, “She sure is purty isn’t she?” If Mom is in the room, you could say to your Dad, “Mom sure is purty, today, isn’t she? She put on a brand new dress.” Never heard the thing about the cat. Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![InLucemEdita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7ab992/32.png) [@InLucemEdita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InLucemEdita)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/69 "2009-08-04T04:15:34Z")
Posting again to add that this is true not just of Moms, but of anyone deserving of politeness. However, as this thread demonstrates, this “rule” is certainly not universally known, and is pretty esoteric in any case. There have been one or two times when I’ve slipped up, and then turned to the “slighted” person and said, “Oh, I’m sorry, I just referred to you in the third person.” They responded with a confused look and a, “Huh?”. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/70 "2009-08-04T14:34:12Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Oddly, no. > > I grew up in Los Angeles, and my mom got all huffy if I ever referred to her as “she.” The first time it happened, I was genuinely confused. What, are we not allowed to use pronouns anymore? I dismissed it as her being crazy/foreign, and went along with it figuring it was easier to obey her than to argue. I’m absolutely fascinated by this thread. My mother is from Poland, and she pulled the exact same crap on me. As far as I’m able to understand, in the Polish culture at least, the use of a pronoun to refer to a close family member is considered … not exactly rude, perhaps, but … cold? Impersonal? Something more along those lines. This would be in line with the posters talking about relatives from different backgrounds, I guess. I chalked it up to a) cultural differences, and b) my mother is batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/71 "2009-08-04T15:25:47Z")
This is fascinating to me as well. I grew up in the western edge of the midwest, raised by parents who were third and fourth generation in that state, so no Polish enclaves for anybody. 😉 We were never reprimanded for using the third person pronoun unless we had not made the subject clear in the conversation. There were definitely no references to cats. That line cracks me up. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/72 "2009-08-04T15:32:24Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Must be a New England thing. I grew up in the midwest and the south, and never heard of such a thing. And you better believe they are big on respecting your mama in the south. I grew up in New England (MA) and never heard of it. And she… I mean, _my Mom_… grew up in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/73 "2009-08-04T22:54:22Z")
I got told this all the time growing up. Until, one day, I just hauled off and shouted, “it’s a pronoun! It’s clearer that way!” This from my Dad, btw; I don’t think my mom cared one whit. And, honest to God, I just thought it was my dad being a dick. Apparently not. I’m from the Chicago area, by the way. My dad’s dad was from South Dakota, and his mom’s parents were from Greece. ---
**Author:** ![Salix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@Salix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salix)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/74 "2009-08-05T01:32:01Z")
So let me see if I understand this. Instead of being able to say “Mom said she thinks she forgot that she went to the store already,” you would have to say something like “Mom said Mom thinks Mom forgot that Mom went to the store already”? That just seems silly to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/75 "2009-08-05T01:36:09Z")
Native Chicagoan. Never heard this one. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/76 "2009-08-05T01:42:52Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Grew up in Philly, and we definitely had this rule. It applied to all adults, but especially to moms. I didn’t need it to make sense, just understood it to be the convention that said people of respect should not be referred to by shorthand, or first names, or pronouns, because they were worthy of the extra effort of saying their name. Kids, on the other hand, needed to be satisfied with a “Hey, you” from an adult. Interesting. I grew up in the Philly 'burbs (Norristown) and I don’t recall ever hearing this. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/77 "2009-08-05T02:12:29Z")
The rule was never enforced in our house (in California), but I was aware of it and “the cat’s mother” from childhood reading. I always assumed the meaning was that your mother is entitled to respect, so don’t refer to her like she’s a household animal. I don’t know if I’d ever heard the phrase spoken aloud though until an episode of “Doctor Who” (second season of the new series, I think). > [@](#): > > I just hauled off and shouted, “it’s a pronoun! It’s clearer that way!” How is _she_ clearer than _Mom_? > [@](#): > > Instead of being able to say “Mom said she thinks she forgot that she went to the store already,” you would have to say something like “Mom said Mom thinks Mom forgot that Mom went to the store already”? Of course not. One _Mom_ is enough – on so many levels. ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/78 "2009-08-05T02:19:57Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > When I was growing up in La República de Tejas, the stories included in our elementary school reading textbooks were often slightly mystifying to me as they were often set in New York or New Jersey or somewhere and talked about things that ordinary kids were supposed to identify with but had nothing to do with life as we knew it down there. References to some fat kid getting Italian ices in front of a brownstone, or whatever. > > One thing I never could figure out later, though, was some dialogue between a kid and his father about the kid’s dog. They were having an argument and the kid said something in reference to his mother, like “_she_ lets me take the dog in my room!” and the dad whirled around and bit his head off: "DON’T you call your mother “SHE!” This happened at least two or three times in the story. > > So, in one of the myriad cultures of the Yankee states in the 1970s or earlier, was it ever considered egregiously disrespectful to refer to your mother by the feminine third person pronoun? What were you supposed to call her, then? > > A small mystery from my yute. First of all, that was not me with the ices. Anyway, I’m from the South, not the Yankee states, but no, you’re not supposed to call your mother “she”. My mother doesn’t even like it when her husband calls her “she”. ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/79 "2009-08-05T02:23:21Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > It’s one step away from Bart Simpson addressing his dad as “Homer”. Most of my friends, the ones I grew up with, now call their fathers by first names. It’s a kind of transition from subject to peer. ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/80 "2009-08-05T02:37:42Z")
My English grandmother once scolded me as a child because, while relaying a conversation between her and someone our of her earshot (but within mine), I said “She (grandma) said that you need to…”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057.md?page=5)