# Don't call your mother "she" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057 "2009-08-02T14:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/121 "2016-02-17T14:55:40Z")
I doubt there was meant to be any more meaning to “the cat’s mother” beyond pointing out that without a proper antecedent, _she_ could mean anyone and failing more specificity is assumed to be someone not worth being detailed further. I also suspect that it is one of those things that was introduced by parents to teach proper use of pronouns but it didn’t come through clearly in all cases and left some with the idea that she alone is incorrect in reference to one’s mother. That being said, this was not a part of my childhood but I find a lot of the example phrases where people have marked getting in trouble for using ‘she’ I do not think I would use. I would prefer using a name rather than a pronoun in those instances. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/122 "2016-02-17T15:08:22Z")
Interesting. I was actually thinking of starting a thread on something like this. I should have known there would already be one. I grew up in the 50s. Lived all over-father from the south, mother from Pennsylvania, a child of immigrant parents. I don’t recall a “no pronoun” rule about parents, but there was this language rule when taking to an adult: you couldn’t refer to the person’s spouse (whether they were present or not) as “your husband,” or “your wife.” You had to use their name (last name, of course). Examples: Hi, Mr. Jones. How is Mrs. Jones? It’s Mrs. Jones coming over, too? (Never, “Is your wife coming over, too?”) ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/123 "2016-02-17T15:21:09Z")
First, I’ve been in NJ from tip to tip and from hip to hip. I’ve never heard of this as a NJ thing. Second, I did hear part of the “Mommy Dear” meme once, but it died out quickly. Years later I asked that person what it was about and they said it was a ‘manners’ thing that migrated up through PA from Philly. I spoke to another elderly relative about that later, and they said that the whole “Mother Dear” thing originated as manners to hit others over the head with from well South of ‘The Main Line’. > [@kayaker](#): > > Growing up in Pittsburgh (back when steel was king) I never heard the cat thing. Referring to mom as “she” was something I remember happening with step-moms. Divorce was a rarity (or so it seemed) and the kids with new moms hated them. If it matters, the person who originally quoted this to my ears had One Truly Fucking Evil Bitch of a step mom growing up in PA. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/124 "2016-02-17T16:04:27Z")
I never heard this, and my parents were big on showing respect. They grew up in the Midwest, I grew up in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/125 "2016-02-17T16:33:16Z")
[Here’s more on it, reflecting some sort of British root to the cat’s mother phrase.](http://expatmum.blogspot.com/2012/04/whos-she-cars-mother.html) The UK dictionaries I found with the phrase just say it’s a mild rebuke usually to a child when they use the pronoun impolitely, but doesn’t define what is meant by “impolitely.” ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/126 "2016-02-17T17:50:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I think the key “offense” is being pissed off at mom and calling her “she”. That’s how it was with my dad when I was little. According to my “tone of voice” it was disrespectful. Offended me: “SHE won’t let me (blah blah)…” Annoyed Dad: “Who is ‘she’?” Me: “HER!!” Dad: _“Who?”_ Me (sniffling): “Mommy.” Dad: “That’s right.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/127 "2016-02-17T18:18:40Z")
> [@miamouse](#): > > It was considered disrespectful. Whenever I used ‘she’, I got angrily told “Who’s ‘she’, the cats mother?” Which made even less sense to me. I still don’t understand what it means. My paternal grandmother, born in Ottawa, said something like this once; “Who’s she, the cat?.” Apparently it was a thing to really old people. I had no idea what she was talking about. My parents never had a problem with pronouns. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/128 "2016-02-17T18:57:46Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Maybe equating “she” with a \*cat \*specifically has to do with cats being, um, whores or something? Well, not _whores_ exactly, but in the sense that one’s own mother should be accorded more respect than a common, litter bearing cat. Or something like that. I sort of “get” what is meant but I’m having a hard time articulating at the moment. Maybe it’s as simple as not every cat being a “she” but every cat having a mother. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/129 "2016-02-18T03:52:38Z")
I wonder whether cats, as opposed to dogs, were sometimes less “important”, or more likely to be animals that weren’t even really part of the family. Right, that doesn’t make complete sense but it could often be the case that, well, you’d certainly know whether you had a family dog or not, but there might easily be some neighbourhood cat that would appear as and when it felt so inclined, _possibly_ be given some household scraps, but just as possibly be viewed as a “outsider” sort of entity, not only a mere quadruped but not even a family member, therefore not being given much respect, with even less respect being given to its (completely unknown) mother. Or its unknown aunts or cousins, as earlier posters have mentioned. Oh, and it was also used for pretty much any adult lady that a child should speak of with respect, because I’m sure I heard my mother say it to me or my brothers when the woman in question might be an aunt, or a neighbour, or the mother of a friend. A friend who was human, that is, not a friend who actually was a cat. Oh, and the “she” thing being rude wasn’t really restricted to when the lady-definitely-not-the-cat’s-mother was present in the room. (Glasgow mid 1960s onwards) I just looked at the date when this thread began. Heck, 2009. It’s taking longer than we thought. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/130 "2016-02-18T04:06:42Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > “She…is the cat’s mother” was alive and kicking in Australia in the 1960’s. > > I know other younger Aussies have posted, but just to reassure **youse** , it was around in my day as well. 😛 (Bolding mine) O joy! I think we could have a whole new thread to talk about the use of “youse”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/131 "2016-02-18T14:45:48Z")
I seem to recall my mother instructing me not to refer to my siblings as “she” or “he”. I believe this would have held true for references to my parents as well. NJ, 1963 or thereabouts. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/132 "2016-02-18T14:51:46Z")
I got the “cat’s mother” line a few times, jokingly, from my Irish dad. I’ve never heard a native American (er . . . native-born American?) use it, though. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/133 "2016-02-18T15:04:18Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > (Bolding mine) O joy! I think we could have a whole new thread to talk about the use of “youse”. 🙂 Not to mention, “you’uns” (one syllable, sort of rhymes with _goons_, but the vowel sound is more like the double-o in _look_) or the ever-popular “youse-guys.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/134 "2016-02-18T15:31:45Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Not to mention, “you’uns” (one syllable, sort of rhymes with _goons_, but the vowel sound is more like the double-o in _look_) or the ever-popular “youse-guys.” Or, if you’re from the Pittsburgh and general Western Penn area, “yinz.” In Chicago, it’s “youse” or “youse guys” if using dialectal second-person forms. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/135 "2016-02-18T15:55:07Z")
My parents never had an issue with this, but I must admit there were times my kids used the she/he pronoun in a way that rankled me. It just felt disrespectful somehow and I never grew up with it or remember hearing about it. Honestly, it’s no weirder to me than the sir/ma’am thing in the South (which, to be honest, I really don’t like). ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/136 "2016-02-18T16:33:03Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Man alive, I never ever heard of this. The things you learn… Same here. I never knew pronouns were disrespectful! ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/137 "2016-02-18T17:57:49Z")
I’m 50 and you can put me in the “First I’ve heard of it” camp. Though, after reading some of the posts, it kinda makes sense. The “Cat’s Mother” part seems unnecessarily snarky, but I guess you can get away with that when the audience/receiver is a 5yo. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/138 "2016-02-18T18:09:07Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > I’m 50 and you can put me in the “First I’ve heard of it” camp. Though, after reading some of the posts, it kinda makes sense > The “Cat’s Mother” part seems unnecessarily snarky, but I guess you can get away with that when the audience/receiver is a 5yo. But it’s the cat’s mother, or less often, the cat’s other relatives, that seem to make it so interesting. Not just a “respect your elders” thing, but the cat aspect seems to occur in quite a few different places. 😕 I suppose perhaps it is just cats being mysterious.😃 ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/139 "2016-02-18T18:48:02Z")
From this excerpt from the 1897 novel [The Beth Book](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28088/28088-h/28088-h.htm) by Sarah Grand it appears that this rule was absolute and had nothing to do with the child’s tone of voice, whether the mother was in the room, or if the identity of “she” had been established as referring to the mother. > [@](#): > > “Don’t you,” said Beth, working away with the scissors cheerfully. “Harriet always says that, when she’s got all the good there is to be got out of anything—the dusters, you know, or the dishcloth. I once did a piece of unpicking like this for mamma, and she didn’t explain properly, or something—at all events, I took out a great deal too much, so she——” > > “Don’t call your mamma ‘she.’ ‘She’ is the cat.” > > “Mamma, then. Mamma beat me.” > > “Don’t say she beat you.” > > “I said mamma.” > > “Well, don’t talk about your mamma beating you. That is not a nice thing to talk about.” > > “It’s not a nice thing to do either,” said Beth judicially. “And I never used to talk about it; didn’t like to, you know. But now she—mamma—doesn’t beat me any more—at least only sometimes when she forgets.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057/140 "2016-02-18T18:53:03Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > I got the “cat’s mother” line a few times, jokingly, from my Irish dad. I’ve never heard a native American (er . . . native-born American?) use it, though. My dad was born and raised in New York and routinely used the “cat’s mother” line. These days, he _still_ uses it, because his grandkids of course say “she”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-call-your-mother-she/505057.md?page=8)