# Don't dare ask a moderator what "political" means **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058 "2005-02-02T22:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/81 "2005-02-03T21:55:17Z")
See, this is the part I don’t understand. Why on God’s green earth do people get so upset when a thread is moved? In the name of God, why? So it’s in a different place than it was originally posted. _So fucking what?_ There’s even a helpful link _in the original forum_ telling you it’s been moved, and letting you click on the link _in the original forum_, and you’ll still get there. Is it because people so dislike being wrong (or being told they’re wrong), or what? Please. Enlighten me. I’m begging here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/82 "2005-02-03T21:59:13Z")
Well, I see tomndebb has weighed in, with far more authority on the matter than me, so if you won’t listen to _either_ of us, then you’re just sulking for the sake of sulking. Go ask your mommy for a wowwipop. ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/83 "2005-02-03T22:04:21Z")
Also: just about everyone on these boards knows that the “the mods are persecuting me” line does not fly. At. All. The people claiming it need to grow a thicker skin. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/84 "2005-02-03T22:05:03Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > Please. Enlighten me. I’m begging here. Well, to hear some people describe it, having your thread moved is the spiritual (if not literal) equivalent of a 15-year sentence to a maximum-security prison where the only forms of recreation are icy showers, strip searches and round-the-clock ass-poundings. I think they embellish somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/85 "2005-02-03T22:57:02Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > See, this is the part I don’t understand. Why on God’s green earth do people get so upset when a thread is moved? > Please. Enlighten me. I’m begging here. I don’t particularly care that the thread was moved, and never complained about that. People are just projecting all sorts of things into my actual comments… I complained because the thread was _locked_, which it certainly was at the time I complained about it, and that I was subsequently taken to task for that complaint even though that condition had changed and there was no way to edit my response to reflect that. And I’ve complained about trying to have a reasonable discussion about moderation in something appropriately called “the Pit,” in an environment where one or two people will engage in that discussion and the rest prattle on about wowwipops and thumbsucking. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/86 "2005-02-03T23:30:11Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Feel free to do so. However, you’re taking the “weirdness” as some kind of personal attack, which only makes you look pathetic and laughable. > > Irrelevant. Politics in GQ are frowned upon. Mods are human. They make judgement calls. > > You’ve completely ignored my alternative hypothesis. That thread stays in GQ because it was so inconsequential and disappeared so quickly from the front page that it’s entirely possible no moderator knew of its existence. Going paragraph by paragraph (and good for you, **Bryan** , for dealing with the issues as issues and not springboards for name-calling; I honestly mean that, I don’t know why I have to be your new enemy): 1. I think I made it very clear in my OP in the other thread which spawned thios one that I thought what appeared to be a not-well-articulated policy gave the _appearance_ of bias and that I _didn’t_ think the mods intended this; go back and read it. The abuse hurled at me since then has been a series of personal attacks, yes. Idiot, crybaby, oversensitve, etc etc… this isn’t rational argument. 2. Yes, mods are human and make judgement calls. I had questions about how they arrived at these, because I didn’t see what the standards were and they didn’t match mine. So sue me. 3. It looks as if **tomndebb** took a look at the Jazeera thread and thinks it still does belong in GQ; so much for the alternative hypothesis. (I was also using that thread as a recent _example_ of many which seemed to fall into the same category for purposes of the discussion I wished to have. One example.) ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/87 "2005-02-03T23:36:23Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > If you want to open a serious discussion on the topic “What is politics?” the place is Great Debates. If I ever want to do that it’d be the first place I’d go. Thanks for the offer (not sarcasm; really, thanks for the suggestion.) What I’ve been asking about is the _operational_ definition of “political” solely within the context of GQ (and I suppose Comments on Cecil & Staff columns), which is both more specific and for the purposes of people posting on here a lot more practical. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/88 "2005-02-03T23:50:08Z")
Thank you very much once again **tomndebb** for addressing my actual posts without being abusive. You’re giving me a good idea of what the rationale that at least you use is. I appreciate that. If a couple of people would have done that earlier on a lot of this could easily have been avoided. > [@](#): > > Well, for one thing, I did not see any “political” responses. I saw no one claiming that Qatar (or al Qaida or any other government or group) was controlling or determining the stories selected. Actually, **tomndebb** , if you go back and look you’ll see that I did exactly that; I lived in Qatar and stated that I thought that since the al-Thani family gives big bucks to the station, you’ll never see critical stories about Qatar. This is an example of how the nature of the question necessitates subjective politically charged answers. I imagine an al-Thani answering the same Q would have a different take on that (in fact having met a few members of the extended family I could pretty much guarantee it.) Now, the comment from someone else in the same thread about how Fox and Jazeera are equally biased (with no supporting logic or data, just stated as fact) also strikes me as fraught with political motivation and assumptions as well. I’m not looking for everyone left and right to get their posts reprimanded, I’m just explaining how there appears to me to be a selectivity about what becomes a “political” statement owing to assumptions in the background political culture and how that can affect moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/89 "2005-02-04T00:58:00Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > Also: just about everyone on these boards knows that the “the mods are persecuting me” line does not fly. At. All. The people claiming it need to grow a thicker skin. Seriously. I don’t know who “the people” are, but it seems to me that if there are a decent amount of these - and I don’t usually bother reading the Pit so I don’t know - maybe there is a problem of some sort that needs addressing. I’m also curious as to the “just about everyone” vs “the people” breakdown. Who’s who? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/90 "2005-02-04T01:32:23Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > The abuse hurled at me since then has been a series of personal attacks, yes. Idiot, crybaby, oversensitve, etc etc… this isn’t rational argument. Well, that’s the Pit for ya. > [@](#): > > 1. It looks as if **tomndebb** took a look at the Jazeera thread and thinks it still does belong in GQ; so much for the alternative hypothesis. (I was also using that thread as a recent _example_ of many which seemed to fall into the same category for purposes of the discussion I wished to have. One example.) I don’t quite read it that way. If I may speculate, and I await tomndebb’s clarification if he feels one is necessary, he has no objection to the thread staying in GQ because he doesn’t see a compelling reason to move it, though he would move it in a heartbeat if certain lines were crossed. As for “many”, I’d like to see some examples of GQ threads you believe got “political” yet were allowed to stay in that forum. I’d like to add a few criteria, if I may: [ul][li]Posting to the thread took place over at least a 24-hour period, as opposed to the less-than-two-hours of the given example.[/li][li]At least 300 views.[/li][li]Posts from at least 10 different users.[/li][\*]Preferably at least one moderator posting.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/91 "2005-02-04T01:40:39Z")
I’d say, from reading **LindyHopper** ’s post, that “the people” are the people who claim “the mods are persecuting me”. “Just about everyone” is pretty much everyone else. In my experience there are not many of these claimants (“the people”) and there is no “problem of some sort that needs addressing”. In my experience there are some people on this message board who seem to have difficulty applying common sense. They also seem to have reading comprehension problems (was it really that hard to figure out who “the people” were as opposed to “just about everyone”). ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/92 "2005-02-04T03:12:57Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, that’s the Pit for ya. This is something like the third time I’m stating this, but that’s precisely why I had been avoiding the Pit. i used to think that people with multiple-thousands of posts got there by engaging in wide-ranging brilliant discussion of every imaginable topic and I was pretty impressed. Now I see that for a lot of people those numbers are boosted by calling people idiots in the Pit all day. The insults started while this was still in ATMB by the way. I don’t understand why you insist that I have to cite _popular_ threads to provide examples. Do the mods have one standard of political debate for the popular ones and a different one for the less popular ones? I’m going out for the evening and will tackle this tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/93 "2005-02-04T05:37:51Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > i used to think that people with multiple-thousands of posts got there by engaging in wide-ranging brilliant discussion of every imaginable topic and I was pretty impressed. :dubious: > [@Crandolph](#): > > The insults started while this was still in ATMB by the way. By insults, you mean the suggestions that you were overreacting and taking an incredibly minor slight way too seriously? - :: checks thread length :: \* Um, yeah… ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/94 "2005-02-04T15:23:00Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I don’t understand why you insist that I have to cite _popular_ threads to provide examples. Do the mods have one standard of political debate for the popular ones and a different one for the less popular ones? As seems clear form Bryan Ekers’s post, he seems to have requested a ‘popular’ example of a political thread to minimize the likelihood that the thread stayed in GQ solely by slipping under the radar (as some people have suggested probably happened to your previous ‘Is al-Jazeera fundamentalist?’ example). Frankly, between this and your comment concerning ‘just about everybody’ vs. ‘the people,’ you seem determined to add ‘has poor reading comprehension skills’ on top of your ‘excessively thin-skinned’ reputation. ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/95 "2005-02-04T15:41:55Z")
> [@1920s Style "Death Ray"](#): > > I’d say, from reading **LindyHopper** ’s post, that “the people” are the people who claim “the mods are persecuting me”. “Just about everyone” is pretty much everyone else. In my experience there are not many of these claimants (“the people”) and there is no “problem of some sort that needs addressing”. > > In my experience there are some people on this message board who seem to have difficulty applying common sense. They also seem to have reading comprehension problems (was it really that hard to figure out who “the people” were as opposed to “just about everyone”). You know, I was going to post to reply, but this says it all, really. Just because I didn’t say “the very small minority of people claiming this” doesn’t mean it can’t be inferred from context. The mods are not persecuting anyone, and most people here realize this. Sure, maybe there aren’t any hard-and-fast rules or standards for the decisions they make, but there are general guidelines, and those can be found in the forum rules. It’s not difficult. ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/96 "2005-02-04T15:44:11Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I’m also curious as to the “just about everyone” vs “the people” breakdown. Who’s who? What do you want, percentages? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/97 "2005-02-04T19:12:18Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > Well, for one thing, I did not see any “political” responses. I saw no one claiming that Qatar (or al Qaida or any other government or group) was controlling or determining the stories selected. > > Actually, tomndebb, if you go back and look you’ll see that I did exactly that; I lived in Qatar and stated that I thought that since the al-Thani family gives big bucks to the station, you’ll never see critical stories about Qatar. This is an example of how the nature of the question necessitates subjective politically charged answers. However, your response was not a _political_ response. It was an observation regarding politics. You did not make the claim that “Those @!#$ al-Thani’s are always silencing the truth about Qatar and leading you foolish Westerners (or those foolish MENA people) astray!” You made a quite rational observation regarding the politics that gets played in the nation in which al-Jazeera operates. A similar statement regarding Fox (that would be left in **GQ** ) might be that Fox’s editorial policies are dependent on the political leanings of Rupert Murdoch. (While a claim that no one can trust “Murdoch’s right-wing lackeys” would get either a handslap to the poster or a forum reassignment for the thread.) Note that the issue is not _purely_ the presence of a political observation. There have been many threads in **GQ** regarding Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Democracy, Fascism, etc. As long as the topic is political _but the discussion is not political_ the thread can stay in **GQ**. The basic guideline is that _debates_ do not belong in **GQ**. The observation is that _politically motivated comments_ (named with the possibly misleading shorthand of “politics”) will nearly always spur debates. Thus a _politically motivated statement_\* in **GQ** is liable to invoke moderator action. . - (Or a statement that would be construed by a neutral observer, even if perhaps erroneously, to have been probably politically motivated or a statement that may not have been politically motivated but is so similar to other politically motivated statements that a political response would generally be expected.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/98 "2005-02-04T23:50:02Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I don’t understand why you insist that I have to cite _popular_ threads to provide examples. Do the mods have one standard of political debate for the popular ones and a different one for the less popular ones? I don’t know anything about popular; only one of my threads ever broke the elusive two-page mark. But, yes, I’m asking for an example of a political thread in GQ that was around long enough for a moderator to take notice of it and decide that it was fine where it was. Something with a running time less than a made-for-TV movie does not, in my opinion, qualify as evidence of moderator… what _are_ you accusing them of, anyway? Negligence, favouritism, incompetence…? I lost track. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/99 "2005-02-05T06:29:11Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I complained because the thread was _locked_, which it certainly was at the time I complained about it, and that I was subsequently taken to task for that complaint even though that condition had changed and there was no way to edit my response to reflect that. No, you’re right. There was no way to edit your OP. However, “Oops” might be a good substitute. Or perhaps, “I’m sorry, I ranted too soon.” I can’t see that you headed that direction. You seemed to take a more antagonistic and, well, jerkish route. Not my first choice, but it’s your party. Take what you want…and pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/100 "2005-02-05T09:28:30Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I’m going out for the evening and will tackle this tomorrow. Dear sweet weeping Jesus, **Crandolph** , do you propose to bitch _further_ about this? Stop your wretched snivelling, man - I’ve taught four year olds who whine less than you. What do you _want_ out of this thread? An apology written on parchment, signed by all Mods, Admins, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, and presented to you by Nelson Mandela himself? Buy yourself a lollipop and for the love of Christ _shut up_! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058.md?page=6)