# Don't dare ask a moderator what "political" means **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058 "2005-02-02T22:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/101 "2005-02-08T09:53:11Z")
OK, after a few days w/o internet access I’m back to complete the task **Bryan** asked about. And, hey, thanks everyone for continuing the lollipop suggestions. You are truly the guardians of ignorance battling. It’s your world, the rest of us just error in it. I love how you have the time to repeat other peoples’ insults (too high-minded to come up with your own I imagine) _while_ suggesting that I “let it go.” Some day I hope to acheive such a level of intelligence that my sense of irony is completely blown as well. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/102 "2005-02-08T10:11:30Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > But, yes, I’m asking for an example of a political thread in GQ that was around long enough for a moderator to take notice of it and decide that it was fine where it was. Something with a running time less than a made-for-TV movie does not, in my opinion, qualify as evidence of moderator… what _are_ you accusing them of, anyway? Negligence, favouritism, incompetence…? I lost track. Second time I’m repeating this, but if you check my OP in the locked-unlocked-moved thread (the one that spawned this one), I make it pretty clear that I think the problems I perceive(d) with making the “political” distinction were owing to unintententional and culturally influenced perceptions and that I thought the mods in general try to work against that. Secondarily I think that you can’t be insulting people for overstepping a cut-and-dry boundary when we’re obviously having difficulty defining where that line might be, and that we’ve established that it gets fairly subjective, and on top of that that people are human and error. (At least we’re willing to allow the mods to be human and error; I don’t get the same consideration. If I see something differently it’s because I’m an “idiot.” Great way to grow your virtual community, eh? Terrific way to boost your subscriptions so the financial situation of the boards inproves!) I did a little digging for threads yesterday and will do a little more now based in ones I remember participating in. Once again I’m happy to discuss this with anyone reasonable. The rest of you who seem to be here to lurk and note that you’re enjoying the dogpile should read the Pit Rules sticky. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/103 "2005-02-08T10:15:53Z")
> [@LindyHopper](#): > > What do you want, percentages? :dubious: Maybe. Or examples. Or any other definition that isn’t tautological. I’m obviously asking because I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/104 "2005-02-08T10:35:48Z")
OK, here goes: [This one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=299813) is a thinly disguised modern American church-state debate happening within a discussion of American history that’s highly contraversial and has direct effects today. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=300483) is very clearly political and one of the members even notes he thinks he’s “moving into GD territory.” No one tried to answer [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=300445) (I may give it a shot having spent a bit of time in Nepal a few yrs ago) but parts of the Q are more easily handled as factual, while others are going to be more subjectively handled by the nature of the beast. [This one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=299968) gets a little moderation, but wasn’t moved last I checked. This appears to me to be a debate between people who like HRC and those who don’t, and is largely a subjective debate over what people “should” be called. Here’s a good example of an [economics thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=299318), in which it’s hard to select a relevant set of facts to cite without showing your leanings as to what sort of taxation system who prefer. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=299242) on prostitution and reservations has more political commentary than cited fact, although mostly by a member who was recently banned (not for this apparently; there’s no mod comment at all). I have several other threads in mind I’d have to search my old responses to find, but I recall enough to know that this sort of thing is common enough that calling someone out for politicizing an “apolitical” area of the boards is a stickier wicket than a lot of you are making it sound. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/105 "2005-02-08T10:37:05Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > without showing your leanings as to what sort of taxation system who prefer. :smack: \*you \* prefer. Or “…one prefers.” ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/106 "2005-02-08T11:10:35Z")
_Five_ consecutive posts without a pause for breath? That has to be some kind of record. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/107 "2005-02-08T11:14:02Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > I have several other threads in mind I’d have to search my old responses to find, but I recall enough to know that this sort of thing is common enough that calling someone out for politicizing an “apolitical” area of the boards is a stickier wicket than a lot of you are making it sound. What the heck, I’ll give it another shot… nobody is saying that off-topic or even political debates don’t spontaneously happen in GQ. They do. Borderline cases exist and it’s not easy to judge them. Happy? If you’ve got a question that wasn’t strictly factual to start with, and you get a few non-factual answers, well, you can’t really say that it’s been dragged off topic or corrupted anyone’s information-seeking effort. And if no flamefest or rambling debate occurs, it’s not really worth moving or modding. On the other hand, in this incident that you won’t let die, a factual answer was being sought, and yes, there was a bit of non-factual but also non-controversial byplay. Then you laid a potentially thread-wrecking political landmine in the middle of it and received a very, very mild admonition not to do so. (In light of this multi-page pitting, it must be repeated again - it was extremely mild). Instead of accepting it in the spirit it was intended, you took it personally and proceeded federal case out of it. And yes, in this thread, a mod snarked at you mildly. It was inappropriate, and that mod’s holier-than-thou attitude has since landed her in hot water as I suspected it one day would. If you still can’t see the difference between your thread and the threads you posted as example, well… I’m glad we have mods. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/108 "2005-02-08T18:06:01Z")
The Separation of Church and State thread did elicit some snarky comments. However, the general trend of the thread was to continue to provide a factual response to the question. Thr Grenadan thread was almost **a** political. There was no claim that we “had to beat the commies” and there were no condemnations of the administration (despite my single snide remark which I offset by pointing out that other previous left wing claims were in error). The question was asked and answered with facts and information. There is nothing at all _political_ about the Nepal question. It may have been easy to tell which economic theory any given respondent favored, but there was no claim that “we should follow this model” or that “we should _not_ follow this model.” Again, I do not see any political discussion in this thread–and nothing that led to debate. The prostitution/reservations thread has a lot more observations than citations for facts, but it, too, is pretty much free of “politics.” Let’s look at my earlier statements: The reason for avoiding politics in **GQ** is to avoid debate, rather than to avoid political information. Something will probably (and, admittedly subjectively) be viewed as “politics” if it is - Politically motivated Or - It would be construed by a neutral observer, even if perhaps erroneously, to have been probably politically motivated Or - It may not have been politically motivated but is so similar to other politically motivated statements that a political response would generally be expected. No statement in the last four threads to which you linked prompted anyone to begin ranting against American hegemony, Communist world domination, Right wing or Left wing arrogance in telling other people how to run their lives, claims that one party or another had brought glory or ruin to a country (or a period in that country’s history), or similar _politically motivated_ comments. The politically motivated comments in the first thread to which you linked had the potential to derail the discussion, but, in fact, they were couched in terms of perspective in evaluating the OP and the thread did, ultimately, pretty much answer the OP. Now, in the thread which initially prompted this whole discussion, how do we view your comment? Unlike the threads you have now listed that dealt with (potentially) political _topics_, but which could be answered without _politically motivated_ sparring, that thread simply asked whether children died at the WTC. However else one might view your post, it was pretty clear to **Bibliophage** that your post \* may not have been politically motivated but is so similar to other politically motivated statements that a political response would generally be expected\*. What _generally_ happens when a thread is discussing deaths (of any sort) in the WTC and someone posts “How about the deaths in Afghanistan?” I will not pretend to understand your motivation in posting. I will, indeed, assume a simple desire for information. However, it is pretty clear to me, (as it was to **Bibliophage** ), that regardless of your motivation, that question was going to hijack that thread. On the other hand–and this is a judgement call, but I tend to agree with **Bibliophage** –the posts that compared the absence of Jews being killed (a known lie) to the absence of children being killed and used that comparison to mock conspiracy theories did not take the thread in an entirely different direction _and led to no debate_. Similarly, the posts that simply identified that Jews _had_ died in the attack did not lead to debate. (Had some Aryan Nation zealot stormed into the thread declaring that no Jews had _really_ died, they would have received an admonition to cool it or, had several posters responded before a Mod arrived, the thread would have been moved or closed. The odds that such a person would show up in that thread on the SDMB, however, are small. We do not have a large number of such people and they rarely interrupt such threads (or even stay long on the SDMB). So while there might be a hypothetical case of the posts regarding Jewish deaths leading to a debate, the reality is that such an event would have a very low probability. Much, much lower than the response to a question of how many deaths in Afghanistan were the result of the WTC attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/109 "2005-02-08T19:02:27Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > Secondarily I think that you can’t be insulting people for overstepping a cut-and-dry boundary when we’re obviously having difficulty defining where that line might be, and that we’ve established that it gets fairly subjective, and on top of that that people are human and error. _ **What insults?!** _ There was no insult whatsoever in the original GQ thread, it was suggested that you were overreacting in your ATMB thread (which you were), and again suggested that you were overreacting at the start of this Pit thread (which you were). Now, people are insulting you because you’re going on and on and ON about _nothing_, not to mention your constant self-pity posts. For example: > [@](#): > > (At least we’re willing to allow the mods to be human and error; I don’t get the same consideration. If I see something differently it’s because I’m an “idiot.” Great way to grow your virtual community, eh? Terrific way to boost your subscriptions so the financial situation of the boards inproves!) Boo fucking hoo. You’ve gotten more patient, detailed explanations from moderators on this topic than I can remember any other member getting on any topic and still you complain. Go away. I can’t believe we’ll ever be so desperate for money that we have to cater to whiny bitches like you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/110 "2005-02-08T19:16:37Z")
This thread is _still_ here? ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/111 "2005-02-08T19:26:06Z")
> [@NattoGuy](#): > > What the heck, I’ll give it another shot… nobody is saying that off-topic or even political debates don’t spontaneously happen in GQ. They do. Borderline cases exist and it’s not easy to judge them. Happy? > > And if no flamefest or rambling debate occurs, it’s not really worth moving or modding. > > Then you laid a potentially thread-wrecking political landmine in the middle of it and received a very, very mild admonition not to do so. I have to say I am “happy” that after several of you arguing that political debates _don’t_ happen in GQ, one of you at least is now saying “well, yeah, sometimes they do and it’s hard to limit that.” No flamefest started as a result of my comment, which was up for 30 minutes before a mod commented on it, and I’d argue it was no more likely than trying to figure out who is or isn’t Jewish based on their names (how this is more on topic than what I wrote continues to baffle me.) ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/112 "2005-02-08T19:32:39Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > _ **What insults?!** _ Go away. I can’t believe we’ll ever be so desperate for money that we have to cater to whiny bitches like you. Is it customary around here to suggest people quit subscribing to the board because you disagree with them? I love how you lead with “What insults?” and end with calling me a “whiny bitch” (which seems denigrating to women to me, which is hatespeak, which is banned in the Pit Rules, no?) ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/113 "2005-02-08T19:34:14Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > This thread is _still_ here? Now I know how people get up to 10,000 posts. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/114 "2005-02-08T19:35:50Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > No flamefest started as a result of my comment, which was up for 30 minutes before a mod commented on it, You seem to be under the impression that 30 minutes is either (a) a long time or (b) at least long enough to prove your point. You would be wrong. 30 minutes is an incredibly fast response rate for this board. Again, you seem to think that there are thousands of people hanging on your every word wanting to immediately respond to the things you say. And to think that any possible comment that could ever be crafted to your original political hijack post would have to take place inside of that 30 minutes is absolutely absurd. I’d ask you to try again, but I’d rather you just give it up. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/115 "2005-02-08T19:49:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > On the other hand–and this is a judgement call, but I tend to agree with **Bibliophage** –the posts that compared the absence of Jews being killed (a known lie) to the absence of children being killed and used that comparison to mock conspiracy theories did not take the thread in an entirely different direction _and led to no debate_. Similarly, the posts that simply identified that Jews _had_ died in the attack did not lead to debate. (Had some Aryan Nation zealot stormed into the thread declaring that no Jews had _really_ died, they would have received an admonition to cool it or, had several posters responded before a Mod arrived, the thread would have been moved or closed. The odds that such a person would show up in that thread on the SDMB, however, are small. We do not have a large number of such people and they rarely interrupt such threads (or even stay long on the SDMB) Thanks again, **Tom** , for your patience. I happen to agree that the Jewish conspiracy thing is a lie, but I also know for a fact that there are large parts of the world in which this is debated quite seriously. I’ve had to have this debate with people in fact. I wasn’t even thinking about Aryan Nations, although I imagine they may have the same take on things. I was thinking about large parts of the Muslim world and more of Europe than you might suspect. My whole point here is that what we treat as a “known lie” or as contraversial is colored by our internal political culture, and that on a worldwide message board you have to take that into consideration. I’m 100% sure that in other parts of the world (not just the Middle East) the comment I posted would never have been noted as contraversial or potentially inflammatory. If there’s a habit of only citing comments in GQ or elsewhere that don’t come from an assumption of mainstream American political culture as suddenly sticking out as “political,” then I’m not surprised that people with an unpopular perspective don’t stick around long. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/116 "2005-02-08T19:53:06Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > Is it customary around here to suggest people quit subscribing to the board because you disagree with them? Yes. We drive out all who oppose us, by viciously refusing to define what is or is not political. It is our custom. > [@](#): > > I love how you lead with “What insults?” and end with calling me a “whiny bitch” (which seems denigrating to women to me, which is hatespeak, which is banned in the Pit Rules, no?) The comment of yours I quoted referred to your being insulted for stepping over a boundary, i.e. posting something political in GQ. You were not insulted for that, either at the time or later, despite your constant references to being insulted by mods and others for it. You _have_ been subsequently insulted for acting like a big whiny drama queen. Shit, that was hatespeak against gays, thesbians and possibly the Queen of England! I’m in big trouble now! ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/117 "2005-02-08T19:53:16Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Again, you seem to think that there are thousands of people hanging on your every word wanting to immediately respond to the things you say. Do you see no irony in the fact that you responded to what I had to say just now in 9 minutes? ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/118 "2005-02-08T19:56:17Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Yes. We drive out all who oppose us, by viciously refusing to define what is or is not political. It is our custom. The funny thing is that I got an email this morning from someone who was banned from here claiming that something like that is pretty much the case and encouraging me to hold my ground. Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/119 "2005-02-08T19:59:07Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > Now I know how people get up to 10,000 posts. You seem to be doing pretty good with this one thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058/120 "2005-02-08T20:01:06Z")
The point of the “no politics” rule (“actually, it’s more of a guideline”) is to prevent _debates_ in **GQ**. If a matter is not likely to be perceived as political \*_by the customary readership of **GQ** _, (thus, being unlikely to incite a debate), then it is likely to stay below the Moderator radar of “political” discussion. We do not even have to leave the U.S. for analogies to your observations: a reference to the Invisible Pink Unicorn is (if not posted in a provocative fashion) is going to survive in **GQ** because this board has an overwhelming number of skeptics, atheists, agnostics, and religious-people-who-tolerate-religious-pluralism. A reference to the IPU on the old, defunct Left Behind Message Board would have produced a firestorm of criticism. A casual reference to the accuracy of the _Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion_ will prompt immediate condemnation on this board, but probably pass unremarked on the storm front message board. The issue is one of reducing debate, and the issues that will prompt debate are very clearly tied to the expectations and “culture” of the board, not to some objective rating under the careful eye of the watching Vorlons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-dare-ask-a-moderator-what-political-means/288058.md?page=7)