# Don't give a good goddamn if it's the Pit or not **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 28, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522 "2019-01-28T03:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/81 "2019-01-28T22:42:36Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > I’m belatedly familiar with the cliche` but, at the time, I did not take it as a cliche or rhetorical device. Where I come from, we don’t ask each other stuff like that unless they are serious. She didn’t “ask” you anything. She was demonstrating the loaded question fallacy, implying that you engage in such fallacious rhetoric yourself. > [@](#): > > I thought she intended to be serious and took it as such. As for the last paragraph. Guin corrects herself and makes it clear she was talking about my wife. See this[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452620&postcount=740)(by you) and [Guin](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452623&postcount=741). That’s not what is happening in those posts. She’s correcting her use of the rhetorical device. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/82 "2019-01-28T22:46:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Huey’s insult was below the belt, hurtful, and something that I don’t think belongs on these boards. Agreed. > [@](#): > > But if we make the decision that we don’t tolerate this: then I think we also have to make the decision not to tolerate the accusations that are flying around Huey’s pit thread that he isn’t really black. Also agreed. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/83 "2019-01-28T22:49:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I don’t expect a sensible answer from you, but I am curious why you keep referring to the PIT. It’s the BBQ Pit. Pit is not an acronym so does not need capitalisation. You’ve been here 2 decades, you must have noticed this yet you’re still using the same stupid orthography you were doing in the '00s. Ahem, the PIT is a shortened form of BBQ Pit. You can chose to capitalize it for many reasons. Your choice. Unless there has been a rules change that I’m not aware of, we are not being graded by grammarians. (We aren’t being graded by grammarians, are we?) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/84 "2019-01-28T22:51:59Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Ahem, the PIT is a shortened form of BBQ Pit. You can chose to capitalize it for many reasons. Your choice. Unless there has been a rules change that I’m not aware of, we are not being graded by grammarians. (We aren’t being graded by grammarians, are we?) – “C-minus” – yours truly, a Grammarian (self-appointed) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/85 "2019-01-28T22:56:37Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Ahem, the PIT is a shortened form of BBQ Pit. You can chose to capitalize it for many reasons. Your choice. He just wanted a excuse to insult me in ATMB. But yeah, others use it to. I use PIT as really, to me it _is_ “the pits” and to me BBQ is a good thing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/86 "2019-01-28T22:59:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He just wanted a excuse to insult me in ATMB. > > But yeah, others use it to. I use PIT as really, to me it _is_ “the pits” and to me BBQ is a good thing. 😛 “The Pit” or “The pit” not “The PIT”. It’s not a fucking acronym. And no, others don’t use it to **o**. You’re the only one, and you’ve been doing it for as long as I’ve been a poster here. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/87 "2019-01-28T23:02:42Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > “The Pit” or “The pit” not “The PIT”. It’s not a fucking acronym. Who gives a FLYING fuck? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/88 "2019-01-28T23:03:41Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Who gives a FLYING fuck? Grammarians? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/89 "2019-01-28T23:04:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > She didn’t “ask” you anything. She was demonstrating the loaded question fallacy, implying that you engage in such fallacious rhetoric yourself. > > That’s not what is happening in those posts. She’s correcting her use of the rhetorical device. _You_ see that. _I_ see that. Obviously others do as well. But _he_ did not. As he just made clear, he \*saw \*it as an insult, one specifically targeted at his putative wife and insinuating he was an abuser. Not excusing anything, just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/90 "2019-01-28T23:08:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seriously? Are you unfamiliar with that (tired and off-point) cliche? She was no more attacking your wife than she might have been impugning your oatmeal-preparation abilities had she chosen a different cliche. I don’t know if this was pointed out in that thread (I’m not following it) but in the linked posts, Guinastasia said “have you stopped beating your white yet”, not “wife.” I don’t know if this was a play on words or a typo, but either way Huey Freeman altered the quote to say “wife.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/91 "2019-01-28T23:12:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I don’t know if this was pointed out in that thread (I’m not following it) but in the linked posts, Guinastasia said “have you stopped beating your white yet”, not “wife.” I don’t know if this was a play on words or a typo, but either way Huey Freeman altered the quote to say “wife.” No, Huey didn’t alter the quote. The link in Huey’s post points back to quote #764, which does indeed say “wife”. The original one, in #739, said “white” but Guin clarified in #741 that she meant “wife”, and in a follow-up jab at Huey (or Huey’s wife, depending on your perception), she said “wife”, which is what Huey quoted (accurately). ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/92 "2019-01-28T23:14:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I don’t know if this was a play on words or a typo, but either way Huey Freeman altered the quote to say “wife.” She straightened it out, and that’s [the post he quoted](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453437&postcount=764). So he’s not guilty of that, at least. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/93 "2019-01-28T23:14:42Z")
> [@andros](#): > > _You_ see that. _I_ see that. Obviously others do as well. > > But _he_ did not. As he just made clear, he \*saw \*it as an insult, one specifically targeted at his putative wife and insinuating he was an abuser. > > Not excusing anything, just saying. I seriously doubt his honestly that he saw it as an insult - he saw it as an excuse to fling shit. he appears to be the type that will look for and make any excuse to fling shit at other posters. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/94 "2019-01-28T23:19:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > – “C-minus” – yours truly, a Grammarian (self-appointed) Should “grammarian” be capitalized? Perhaps if you were _The Grammarian_, I could see the need to capitalized your self-appointed title, but if you’re only a grammarian, the capitalization seems a tiny bit pretentious. Just a tiny bit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/95 "2019-01-28T23:20:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It does exactly the opposite. Actually, I think it does a pretty good job. I see some spirited debate in other forums, but it’s understood that if you really want to have a good ole fashion Eric Lindros - Scott Stevens fight on skates, then the Pit is where to take it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/96 "2019-01-28T23:21:12Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Ahem, the PIT is a shortened form of BBQ Pit. You can chose to capitalize it for many reasons. Your choice. Unless there has been a rules change that I’m not aware of, we are not being graded by grammarians. (We aren’t being graded by grammarians, are we?) Apparently not. [Not](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18726655&postcount=1052) [anymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20052442&postcount=107), anyway. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/97 "2019-01-28T23:22:13Z")
\_\_ ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/98 "2019-01-28T23:22:30Z")
Can someone explain how a question asking a man if he is still beating his wife an attack on the wife? If you don’t realize it’s a rhetorical device, how is that attacking the _wife_, and not the husband? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/99 "2019-01-28T23:28:20Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Which Guin violated by attacking my wife All fluent English speakers know full well this never happened. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/100 "2019-01-28T23:31:20Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > All native English speakers know full well this never happened. I think BB is probably right here: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I think that expecting everyone to be familiar with a “tired and off-point cliche” to be unrealistic. I’m not entirely sure all of my friends and family would be familiar with it. I suspect a good number of native English speakers are not actually familiar with the “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” loaded question example. I would, however, expect that a higher % of Dopers are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522.md?page=6)