# Don't give a good goddamn if it's the Pit or not **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 28, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522 "2019-01-28T03:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/101 "2019-01-28T23:35:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Keep in mind, this is largely the same mod staff that tolerated **Clothahump** for nearly 20 years and **Starving Artist** for the better part of a decade. Yeah, but they tolerate someone who supported, argued in favor of and tried to obfuscate the act of child rape. So there’s a lot of latitude. Of course I’m referring to Caesario. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/102 "2019-01-28T23:36:28Z")
I just want to say that I find it suspicious that he knows so much about Guin at all. It’s strange when I see a poster know so much about other posters and what they’ve posted before they got here. It’s not impossible to have been so obsessed that you looked up everything about them, but it would be a lot simpler if they knew about the person from before. Not that I’m against once again trying to say that attacking people for their mental illness should not be allowed. Just that there may be more to this particular instance. I do note the irony of the guy being upset about bigotry towards black people but engaging in it himself. That sort of inconsistency actually does make me think he might be being inauthentic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/103 "2019-01-28T23:47:24Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Then it should’ve been in the rules. Which Guin violated by attacking my wife regardless of her intention by using such a pointed rhetorical device. To claim post hoc outrage and play shoulda-woulda-coulda is absurd. “Post hoc”? Do you know what that means? What kind of outrage should we claim, pre hoc? C’mon. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But if we make the decision that we don’t tolerate this: then I think we also have to make the decision not to tolerate the accusations that are flying around Huey’s pit thread that he isn’t really black. Fuck yes. > [@](#): > > But if we are going to make mental illness off-limits (and I think that we should) then we need to make bigger, broader changes than that as well. Absogoddamnlutely. > [@](#): > > I don’t think we should tolerate this sort of misogynistic, intimidating, creepy, personal stuff here. Yes! I am sure that Huey will think the only reason I’m attacking him is because I’m white and he’s not. He’s entitled to that belief. But that ain’t the case. Moderation here needs to emphasize the idea: does putting up with this flavor of nastiness make for a better board? If it doesn’t, don’t put up with it any more. Huey’s nastiness is just one small component of the overall nastiness I keep inveighing against. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/104 "2019-01-28T23:53:24Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > I’m belatedly familiar with the cliche` but, at the time, I did not take it as a cliche or rhetorical device. Where I come from, we don’t ask each other stuff like that unless they are serious. I thought she intended to be serious and took it as such. As for the last paragraph. Guin corrects herself and makes it clear she was talking about my wife. See this[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452620&postcount=740)(by you) and [Guin](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452623&postcount=741). > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I think that expecting everyone to be familiar with a “tired and off-point cliche” to be unrealistic. I’m not entirely sure all of my friends and family would be familiar with it. It’s a phrase that might be more prevalent in America than New Zealand. I don’t know. I consider it an idiom more than a cliche. Cite: > [@](#): > > [Have you stopped beating your wife - definition of Have you stopped beating your wife by The Free Dictionary](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Have+you+stopped+beating+your+wife) > > fallacy of many questions > n > (Logic) logic the rhetorical trick of asking a question that cannot be answered without admitting a presupposition that may be false, as have you stopped beating your wife? > > Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014 Cite, emphasis added: > [@](#): > > [Loaded question - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question) > > A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1] > > Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner’s agenda.[2] **The traditional example is the question “Have you stopped beating your wife?”** Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[2] The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious.[2] Hence the same question may be loaded in one context, but not in the other. For example, the previous question would not be loaded if it were asked during a trial in which the defendant had already admitted to beating his wife.[2] > > This fallacy should be distinguished from that of begging the question,[3] which offers a premise whose plausibility depends on the truth of the proposition asked about, and which is often an implicit restatement of the proposition.[4] Related discussion: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-390352.html](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-390352.html) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/105 "2019-01-29T00:02:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But if we make the decision that we don’t tolerate this: then I think we also have to make the decision not to tolerate the accusations that are flying around Huey’s pit thread that he isn’t really black. I think that targeting a black poster who posts about the reality of the black experience with accusations that his experiences are not real is every-bit as hurtful as what he posted about Guinastasia IMHO. I had a moderator (in the pit) make the same veiled accusation about me. That I wasn’t really a Maori. That I was a bot just saying Maori words. That fucking hurts. Its a hurt that most of you guys don’t understand: you can’t understand. But if we are going to make mental illness off-limits (and I think that we should) then we need to make bigger, broader changes than that as well. Point taken, but such a rule opens the board up to waves of trolls; I think it inadvisable. Also and separately, I think it’s fair to inquire about a poster’s ethnic background when they imply they are of one race or another. The poster should be free not to respond however. I once asked **Omg a Black Conservative** what race someone walking down the street would assign him to and he declined to specify - which I thought was totally within his rights. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/106 "2019-01-29T00:18:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m finding it very hard to disagree with the honorable 8-legged gentleman. Yeah, Huey’s insult was below the belt, hurtful, and something that I don’t think belongs on these boards. > > But if we make the decision that we don’t tolerate this: then I think we also have to make the decision not to tolerate the accusations that are flying around Huey’s pit thread that he isn’t really black. I think that targeting a black poster who posts about the reality of the black experience with accusations that his experiences are not real is every-bit as hurtful as what he posted about Guinastasia IMHO. I don’t see these as the same issue. It is common to claim someone is not who they claim to be. There’s a purpose and meaning behind the statement. We don’t know that anyone on this board is who they claim to be, and if they post in a manner that contradicts who they claim to be, it makes sense to point that out. There is, however, no reason to attack someone’s children or attack someone for their mental illness, just as there is no reason to attack someone for being black, female, gay, etc. There is no valid reason there: it’s just bigotry. I get that it hurts to be told you aren’t who you actually are, but I don’t think this is about comparing how hurtful comments are. It’s about comments that serve no purpose but to use bigotry to attack others. Telling someone you suspect they aren’t actually black is at least something that can be true, while telling someone they are horrible because of their minority status is just bigotry. I say this primarily because I’m concerned the mods may find a good reason to allow saying “you’re not black” (as in, you’re not who you say you are). So, if they agree with you, that means that they can’t ban “you’re pathetic because you are mentally ill [or black, etc.].” So I’m arguing they are different issues that people might come to different conclusions towards. I personally will take the “it hurts really bad to be told you’re not really [race or ethnicity]” under advisement. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/107 "2019-01-29T00:19:19Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Then it should’ve been in the rules. Which Guin violated by attacking my wife regardless of her intention by using such a pointed rhetorical device. To claim post hoc outrage and play shoulda-woulda-coulda is absurd. Just out of curiosity Hubert, how was asking rhetorically if you Hubert, or a wife beater is any kind of attack on your wife? Do you think abused wives are somehow to blame for what their abusers do? It would certainly fit in with your other horribly misogynistic, anti-women screeds. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/108 "2019-01-29T00:29:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Apparently not. [Not](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18726655&postcount=1052) [anymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20052442&postcount=107), anyway. I don’t see a _grade_ assigned to the post(s). Maybe you’re confusing a forum rule with a grammatical error? Is the act of capitalizing a name that doesn’t require capitalization considered to be a grammatical error, or simply sour grapes? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/109 "2019-01-29T00:39:24Z")
> [@andros](#): > > _You_ see that. _I_ see that. Obviously others do as well. > > But _he_ did not. As he just made clear, he \*saw \*it as an insult, one specifically targeted at his putative wife and insinuating he was an abuser. > > Not excusing anything, just saying. That would make sense if **Guin** hadn’t told him exactly what she meant. You could argue he was just so enraged he couldn’t see reason. But he sure seems to be able to switch from being enraged in the Pit to trying to seem reasonable and calm here in ATMB. This comes off more as an excuse than legitimately not understanding what she meant. He had to have built up that knowledge about **Guin** before that post, after all. I also note the different reactions to people having a problem with what he said in the Pit (accusing them of racism) and his reactions here in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/110 "2019-01-29T00:42:56Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Point taken, but such a rule opens the board up to waves of trolls; I think it inadvisable. …what rule did you think I was proposing? I’m not proposing a rule change. I’m suggesting its time for a broader discussion on what we want the BBQ Pit to be. A rule that prohibits “mocking someone for problems with their mental health” doesn’t stop people “pretending that they have a problem with their mental health”. Trolls are gonna troll and a rule change won’t make much of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/111 "2019-01-29T01:00:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I don’t see a _grade_ assigned to the post(s). Maybe you’re confusing a forum rule with a grammatical error? Is the act of capitalizing a name that doesn’t require capitalization considered to be a grammatical error, or simply sour grapes? Fascinating questions, to be sure, and more than worthy of their own thread. Best of luck! ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/112 "2019-01-29T01:01:50Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > She corrects her post to indicate that she was in fact using the cliche of a loaded question. Not your actual wife. You are still indicating that you still believe it was meant as an attack on your wife, despite all evidence to the contrary. > > If she had, as was suggested above, referred to no true Scotsman, how could you have interpreted that as an attack on a loved one? Could you do me a favor? Because, I am neither Miss Cleo or Jean Grey, and I need your help in reading people’s minds. [You claim](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21457293&postcount=79) in this[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452623&postcount=741) that Guinastasia is “correct[ing] her post to indicate that she was using a cliche of a loaded question”. Could you point specifically where she is indicating that this is a “loaded question”? > [@Acsenray](#): > > She didn’t “ask” you anything. She was demonstrating the loaded question fallacy, implying that you engage in such fallacious rhetoric yourself. > > That’s not what is happening in those posts. She’s correcting her use of the rhetorical device. You [claim](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21457299&postcount=81) that Guinastasia in[this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452623&postcount=741)is correcting her use of a rhetorical device. Pretend that I am a kindergartner and explain to me where exactly in this[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21452623&postcount=741)did she point out that this was a rhetorical device? Please show in that post where she is “demonstrating the loaded fallacy question”. > [@raventhief](#): > > I believe Guin even linked a page on loaded questions that uses _that very question as an example_. > ETA: [huh](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453590&postcount=776). [Twice](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21454817&postcount=811). Could you do me another favor? Because I am neither Chrono from \*Chrono Trigger _or Cable from X-men, can you please point out whether the above posts are written before or_ after _the offending post? From my vantage point, the post quoted by the OP is #[769](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453469&postcount=769). The posts implying that she is using a fallacy is #776 and #881. Explain to me, real slow-like, how I am supposed to back in time and realize that she meant to use a rhetorical device rather than an insult given the fact that she provided the clarification_ after \*I had responded to her post? > [@raventhief](#): > > Can someone explain how a question asking a man if he is still beating his wife an attack on the wife? If you don’t realize it’s a rhetorical device, how is that attacking the _wife_, and not the husband? Are you kidding me? Is this a joke? The question isn’t just an attack on my wife, it’s an attack on our marriage and my integrity. > [@simster](#): > > I seriously doubt his honestly that he saw it as an insult - he saw it as an excuse to fling shit. he appears to be the type that will look for and make any excuse to fling shit at other posters. Aaaaand, with this, I’m done. This is the shit I’m talking about and the reason I don’t even bother posting out of the Pit. Debating and discussion is pointless. It really doesn’t matter what the fuck I say because everyone has their mind made up. How the hell you gonna tell me that I didn’t see it as an insult? Are you Jean Grey or some shit? How the hell you gonna tell me what I feel? Where I come from, we don’t go around asking shit like “When is the last time you beat your wife”. Shit, I live in the whitest State, went to the whitest college, and have nearly all white colleagues at work and rhetorical questions about wife beating never came up. It is infuriating that every fucking time I write something, I’m taken as a liar, a schemer, and a hustler. And, ask yourself: why would I lie about something so stupid? I’m pretty simply in regards to how I interact with people in the Pit. With the exception of one poster (paranoid android or something like that), I don’t come after people unless they come after me. Period. I use Sunny Daze as an example because Sunny Daze started an entire thread about terrible I am, but I never, \*ever \*insulted or attacked her because (drumroll) she never insulted me or my wife. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/113 "2019-01-29T01:04:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t see these as the same issue. It is common to claim someone is not who they claim to be. There’s a purpose and meaning behind the statement. We don’t know that anyone on this board is who they claim to be, and if they post in a manner that contradicts who they claim to be, it makes sense to point that out. …Its common for black people, people of colour, indigenous people to be called fake online. I’m pretty sure that it isn’t just me and Huey. We have different histories, we have different life experiences, so we often speak in a manner that contradicts \*\*your \*\*life experiences so you think we are making it all up. > [@](#): > > There is, however, no reason to attack someone’s children or attack someone for their mental illness, just as there is no reason to attack someone for being black, female, gay, etc. There is no valid reason there: it’s just bigotry. Yeah there is a reason to attack someone for their mental illness or their children: its to **hurt them.** People say hurtful things all the time in the pit. It makes sense that people will respond by saying hurtful things as well. I think we all agree that Huey’s calibration is off. But there isn’t any great mystery as to why he said what he did. I’ve only ever said one thing in the pit that I’ve regretted. I had figured out someone’s pressure point and I went after it. My post was relatively innocuous to the casual reader, but I knew that it hurt. I apologized a day later. That person didn’t see my apology and about a year later exploded at me in the pit in a manner I had never seen before from them. It was hurtful. But I deserved it. > [@](#): > > I get that it hurts to be told you aren’t who you actually are, but I don’t think this is about comparing how hurtful comments are. Well I don’t think you get it at all to be honest. > [@](#): > > It’s about comments that serve no purpose but to use bigotry to attack others. Telling someone you suspect they aren’t actually black is at least something that can be true, while telling someone they are horrible because of their minority status is just bigotry. “Telling someone they aren’t actually black” is also a useful way to attack a person of colour while hiding behind the cloak of “just asking questions.” > [@](#): > > I say this primarily because I’m concerned the mods may find a good reason to allow saying “you’re not black” (as in, you’re not who you say you are). So, if they agree with you, that means that they can’t ban “you’re pathetic because you are mentally ill [or black, etc.].” So I’m arguing they are different issues that people might come to different conclusions towards. I think your fears are unwarranted. I’m not proposing a ban. The mods are extremely conservative on changing the rules here. But I don’t think they are different issues at all. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/114 "2019-01-29T01:07:01Z")
You keep saying it’s an attack on your wife, even though she pointed out, _after_ the initial post but _before_ these posts you are making now, that page using that very example. Twice. Maybe your didn’t recognize that rhetorical device at the time, but you say you do now- and yet, you keep calling it an attack on your wife (why, is she the type of woman who gets beat? If you see it as an attack on YOU that makes sense. But I don’t understand how it attacks your wife.) ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/115 "2019-01-29T01:08:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That would make sense if **Guin** hadn’t told him exactly what she meant. > > You could argue he was just so enraged he couldn’t see reason. But he sure seems to be able to switch from being enraged in the Pit to trying to seem reasonable and calm here in ATMB. > > This comes off more as an excuse than legitimately not understanding what she meant. He had to have built up that knowledge about **Guin** before that post, after all. > > I also note the different reactions to people having a problem with what he said in the Pit (accusing them of racism) and his reactions here in ATMB. No, she attempted to clarify [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453590&postcount=776)[and here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21454817&postcount=811) after I had already made my[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453469&postcount=769) attacking her mental illness. I am not psychic nor can I move back and forth through time. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/116 "2019-01-29T01:09:16Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > No, she attempted to clarify [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453590&postcount=776)[and here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21454817&postcount=811) after I had already made my[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453469&postcount=769) attacking her mental illness. I am not psychic nor can I move back and forth through time. Are those before or after your posts IN THIS THREAD calling it an attack on your wife? The point is, now you say you recognize as a rhetorical device, while simultaneously still saying it is an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/117 "2019-01-29T01:11:48Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Explain to me, real slow-like, how I am supposed to back in time and realize that she meant to use a rhetorical device rather than an insult given the fact that she provided the clarification\* after \*I had responded to her post? It’s self evident. It’s a common expression. Like, super common. It is **the** example of the loaded question fallacy. Maybe you didn’t know it then, but [hey,](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html) [now](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question) [you](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-weissman/when-did-you-stop-beating_b_221509.html) [do](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Loaded_question), [right?](https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-scientific-equivalent-of-when-did-you-stop-beating-493171652) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/118 "2019-01-29T01:17:06Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > No, she attempted to clarify [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453590&postcount=776)[and here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21454817&postcount=811) after I had already made my[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453469&postcount=769) attacking her mental illness. I am not psychic nor can I move back and forth through time. So…it’s all a mistake, right? You were unfamiliar with the cliche (and MfM, an idiom can be a cliche) about “Have you stopped beating your wife”, right? and you responded by attacking her mental illness and mocking her singlehood, because you thought she was calling you an abuser, right? On another messageboard, I got a reputation for saying “cite, motherfucker?” I’m not sure I ever said exactly that, but the shoe basically fit. Imagine you saw me ask someone, “Cite, motherfucker?” and the person started GOING THE FUCK OFF because they thought I was literally accusing them of having raped their mom. What would you think they should do once someone explained that “motherfucker” was an idiom, not to be taken literally? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/119 "2019-01-29T01:18:31Z")
That’s lovely and all, but people shouldn’t need to explain insults when the target of a pitting. I could quote a few mods who’ve posted at me but this isn’t the Pit.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522/120 "2019-01-29T01:19:46Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > No, she attempted to clarify [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453590&postcount=776)[and here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21454817&postcount=811) after I had already made my[post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21453469&postcount=769) attacking her mental illness. I am not psychic nor can I move back and forth through time. And dude, I already linked both of those posts IN THIS THREAD. It’s not an attack on the wife to imply that the husband is abusive. Unless you believe that it’s her fault in some way, or that being a victim is insulting, somehow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-a-good-goddamn-if-its-the-pit-or-not/828522.md?page=7)