# Don't give me that anti-vegetarian shit. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2001, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902 "2001-11-17T05:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/141 "2001-11-23T16:42:53Z")
Judging on his prior comments, I think that I can confidently say that the argument would never have existed. **Oblong** was responding purely to a definition that was posted. He has said that it came as a surprise to him - as indeed it did to me. But his point is that _if_ the definition exists in _any_ dictionary, then someone somewhere must be using it that way. In fact, sufficient someones to justify including it in a dictionary. It’s not an unreasonable point. I still think that it is a red herring however. Or possibly, given the context, a red pepper. pan ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/142 "2001-11-23T19:49:59Z")
_sigh_ Did you not read what I posted? I said, why don’t people who eat SOME kinds of meat, but not ALL kinds just say they are picky instead of a vegetarian? THAT’S ALL. They aren’t vegetarians, because they do eat some, like poultry and/or fish. But they don’t eat pork or red meat or maybe, uh, deer or something? I don’t know. Yeesh! ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/143 "2001-11-24T06:55:19Z")
Oblong: Hm. I think we are going in circles here. You say that people have the perception that veggies can eat fish or chicken? Well, no shit Sherlock! That’s why we have our knickers in a twist! And as far as “being nice” about correcting this wrong information - I think I am being perfectly nice. I just want to clear things up. I don’t want to rag on anyone, or get their hackles up. You win more flies with honey than vinegar, and all. But I am quite adamant - just because someone “wishes” or “decides” that they are vegetarian, it doesn’t make them one. And as far as _why_ people have this incorrect perception, I think that is more complex. I think (and I suspect many other veggies will back me up on this) that people want to cling to the premise that vegetarians can indeed eat fish or fowl because it seems less…_foreign_ to them. They are able to grasp the concept a little easier. So many times, people have asked me (when they first find out I am veggie) “But you eat fish and chicken, right?” There’s a certain eagerness in their voice as they ask this. As if they _hope_ I eat fish or chicken, because that’s less “freaky”. So my theory is that this misinformation persists because so many people are _dedicated_ and _motivated_ to believe it. As far as “what vegetarians are” - who gets to define vegetarianism? Why do people persist in believing that veggies can eat fish or chicken, when there is so much external evidence to the contrary? I mean, if it were a more mainstream concept, don’t you think Kentucky Fried Chicken or Long John Silver would want to call themselves “vegetarian friendly”? Or something like that? Why is it when I go to the store, I’ll see “vegetarian chili” (which has no animal flesh) but I don’t see “Turkey chili” labeled as “vegetarian”? And why is it that I’ve _never_ seen a vegetarian cookbook that includes fish or chicken? (I’m not saying that there isn’t some obscure cookbook out there that includes these ingredients, but I’ve _never_ seen one.) Why is it I’ve _never_ seen fish or chicken served at a vegetarian restaurant? If fish and chicken is part of the “perception is reality” that you seem to be going on about, how come the vegetarian restaurants haven’t jumped on the bandwagon? And how come the health food stores I frequent don’t have any packaged veggie foods that have chicken and fish in them? How come I have never, _never_ seen any packaged food labeled “vegetarian” that has fish or chicken in it? I see _no_ evidence that any veggie book, magazine, restaurant, food manufacturer is now including fish or chicken. So this misinformation isn’t coming from them. It’s coming from people who spread the wrong information, because they _want_ it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![VeraGemini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e9bcb4/32.png) [@VeraGemini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VeraGemini)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/144 "2001-11-24T10:48:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **And as far as _why_ people have this incorrect perception, I think that is more complex. I think (and I suspect many other veggies will back me up on this) that people want to cling to the premise that vegetarians can indeed eat fish or fowl because it seems less…_foreign_ to them.** Yeah. Vegetarianism is not well understood, as evidenced by all the threads that pop up here. The first question I usually get is “What DO you eat?”, followed by questions about fish and poultry, often followed by “Are you in some kind of cult?” :rolleyes: It’s easier for people to wrap their brains around the concept of not eating red meat, because it’s familiar. Almost everyone knows someone, family member, friend, coworker, who’s been advised by their doctor to cut down on red meat because of high cholesterol or blood pressure. Pop health magazines and TV reports extoll the virutes of replacing red meat with fish or chicken, supermarket shelves abound with turkey ham and turkey bacon. The concept of “no meat at all” is scarier. Unless you know a vegetarian or have tried out vegetarian recipes, I can see how someone might think it was all salad and this mysterious ingredient known as tofu. There’s also the perception among meat-eaters that vegetarians, just by being vegetarians, are criticizing the meat-eater’s ethics and way of life. If they think that vegetarians eat fish and/or poultry, then that perception of criticism is lessened. Who defines “vegetarian”? Well, the majority of vegetarians and vegetarian organizations/publications agree that a “vegetarian” is one who does not eat animal flesh or products made from animal flesh, and a “vegan” is one who eats no animal products at all. Beyond that, there may be dissent, but not on the definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/145 "2001-11-24T12:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Oblong \* > \*\*It doesn’t specifically mention meat but it infers that meat is acceptable with this sentence “primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, with or without eggs and dairy products.” You see, that means that it is a diet that is either mostly (to what degree is debatable) veggies, grains, fruits, nuts, seeds, and maybe dairy products(the word primarily does this) \*\* Wouldn’t that definition make **most** people vegitarians? I know quite a few vegitarians, and the are, for the most part, fine people. It kinda sucks going to restaurants with 'em though. Picky people, I’m telling ya. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/146 "2001-11-25T21:41:17Z")
Kabbes, I still don’t understand why you feel as if this thread is a personal insult against you or any member of your family. Calm down will ya? I never said that your wife or mother or anyone in your family stopped eating red meat to boast about being a vegetarian. Especially since from what I got from your post, it was not a decision they were happy to make. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some people out there who DO “boast” about being a vegetarian when they aren’t even what they claim to be. You can’t deny that they’re out there. These are the people I speak of. All I am saying is if they DO eat chicken and/or fish, they are not vegetarian. They don’t eat red meat. It really is that simple. I too have been greated with the “what DO you eat?” to which I always respond “food.” And asking if I’m part of a cult. Puh-leese. I feel that it is insecurity on the questioner’s part. They feel as if I am somehow attacking the way they eat by not eating it myself. Maybe they’re looking for justification, who knows. They always ask “but you DO eat chicken and fish?” with more than a hint of hopefulness. I actually find myself reassuring many meat eaters that it’s okay for them to eat meat, if that’s what they choose. They usually back off then. It’s a shame I have soothe their insecurities just so they leave me alone though. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/147 "2001-11-25T22:06:09Z")
I am an equal-opportunity food consumer. With that said, I have encountered some militant vegetarians. Why do you think I should treat animals with dignity and respect(which I do) when you won’t treat me with dignity and respect? ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/148 "2001-11-26T16:07:18Z")
I will stop being insulted when people stop typing insulting things. Don’t think that you can get away with saying something offensive and then hide behind a mask of innocence. “But I didn’t _mean_ to be offensive” just doesn’t cut it. You want to call people who simply eat no red meat and no poultry “picky eaters”? You want to talk of “wannabe” vegetarians “boasting” of being vegetarian? You want to generally act in a way that insults my loved ones? Then frankly I don’t give a **fuck** if you don’t even **realise** how obnoxious you are being. Because you’re still being obnoxious. And I calls 'em as I sees 'em. pan ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/149 "2001-11-26T20:02:10Z")
Kabbes, Here’s a nice, easy, simple way to look at it. I am refering to a certain type of people. Because they DO exist. I don’t care how hard you try to argue it, if you are not one of them, yay, good for you, I’m glad because neither am I. But you can’t say that just because you or your family isn’t like this that there are no people on earth that ARE. If you or your family are not this type of people, then I am not refering to you. Why don’t you go knaw on a steak, pretend it’s my head and calm the fuck down. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/150 "2001-11-26T21:02:38Z")
Kabbes - I gotta say, I see where lezlers is coming from. Just because some people _claim_ to be part of a certain group - it doesn’t mean they are representative of the group, or that they are not worthy of derision. I am a vegetarian, I am what I am. I do not “boast” about my diet, nor do I consider myself a “picky eater”. (I am not exactly thin, if you get my drift. No one is ever going to buy that I am a “picky eater”! 🙂 ) However, I do know people that become veggies so they can “boast”. Maybe it’s an American phenomenon, because vegetarianism isn’t so common here. People like to be “unique”, and vegetarianism sure is that around here. Granted, these so-called vegetarians don’t usually stick to it too long (if “sticking to it” can even apply to what they do) but they _do_ claim to be veggie. They sometimes do it in order to look “cool”, or “rebellious”. (“It’ll _really_ kill Aunt Edna that I no longer will eat her pot roast! And yeah! I can _preach a sanctimonious sermon_ to her too! Vegetarianism sounds _fabulous!_”) Some people dabble with vegetarianism because they assign too much importance to their diet. They have “food issues”, and vegetarianism is just one more thing in a long line of diets they’ve tried. And so (because they have “food issues”) they will tell everyone (“boast”) about their new diet. And next month they’ll boast about their all-protein diet. And on and on. And there are many other reasons someone might start down a veggie path, without the knowledge or commitment to do it with the right spirit. (And the “right spirit” would be - to not be a pain in the ass, and for personal and sincere reasons.) What lezlers describes is not unheard of, but it _certainly_ does not describe me, lezlers, pennylane, VeraGemini, pldennison, OpalCat, your SO, or a variety of other sincere veggies. And it is obvious (to me, at least) that it was never intended to describe veggies like us. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/151 "2001-11-26T21:11:13Z")
THANK YOU Yosemitebabe…thankyouthankyouthankyou… ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/152 "2001-11-26T23:48:31Z")
I forgot about this thread over the holiday. Yes to whatever was question posed to me earlier, I don’t exactly remmeber it but I remember thinking “Yes” and the follow up poster had my thoughts exactly. If I had never seen that definition then I would have assumed that vegetarians didn’t eat fish or poultry. I do know a couple of people who experimented with vegetarianism in the same way some people experiment with religion. It was just a phase in their life. But as I said, I don’t really care or have an interest in changing anybody’s mind. You could have substituted the words but kept the general concept and I still would have argued. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902/153 "2001-11-27T09:09:01Z")
**Oblong** , once again, the definition to which you refer makes no distinction between poultry or fish and other meat. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-give-me-that-anti-vegetarian-shit/93902.md?page=7)