[QUOTE=Seymour Gams]
I was going to say almost exactly this…QUOTE]
You know, except for the part about your exhusband. :smack:
So, what, if the mom was in a bad mood or her daughter was misbehaving, it would be okay for her to chastise and browbeat? I’m sorry, but there’s really no excuse to speak harshly to a child (or anyone, frankly). It happens sometimes, but it is a mistake. Parents should make their best attempt at controlling themselves from demeaning, belittling, and yelling at their children, even when it doesn’t fit their own mood. (And I say this as a mother of a three year old, so trust me, I understand the impulse to scream.)
My BIL is constantly on his son about everything, and I mean everything. Now, my nephew isn’t an angel, and he can be trying on a body (I just had him spend 11 days with me, so I know he has his moments) but my BIL seems to expect constant perfection. The kid is 12. 12-y/o boys do stupid stuff (yeah, I know, so do girls.) And they’re sometimes rude and thoughtless and sometimes lazy and sometimes self-absorbed. Weren’t we all at some point?
On the other hand, the boy cleared his place at the table every meal without being prodded. He kept his room reasonably organized. When we spent a very hot afternoon walking around playing tourist, he seemed genuinely concerned that I sit occasionally and rest. If I asked him to do something, he did it right away. Overall, he’s a good kid.
And yet, his father won’t back off. If the boy makes a mistake, it’s a major disaster. I fear that when he gets a bit older, he may lash out against his dad, or get in a lot of trouble, or just split and never contact any of us again. If I thought it’d do any good, I’d say something to my BIL, but I’ve known him for 22 years. I might just as well talk to my cat and expect to have results.
FCM, you did a world of good, just by being an adult who doesn’t condemn and who likes the kid, and expects him to abide by rules. When it becomes possible, a confidential word with the kid, saying that you know how obnoxiously his father treats him and that he doesn’t deserve that abuse, but there’s little or nothing you can do about it, would make his decade. Kids are aware there are situations that cannot be cured and must be endured, but realizing that somebody else knows and cares and understands is more precious than gold to them.
The tone means nothing, what was she saying? I have a speech impediment that causes me to sound like a stereotypical mentally-challenged person. I speak in almost a total monotone with almost no emotional expression in my voice (think comedian Steven Wright.) My wife says I can pull off monotone and angry. When I discipline my daughters, I sound angry. At 6 and 4, they know how to read my face to see how angry I really am.
My girls are smart and mischievous; if you followed us around a store for 30-45 minutes, I’d probably sound like the biggest asshole dad in the world; “Ladies, what the heck are you doing,” “PLEASE be nice to each other, just for the surprise daddy factor,” “NO, there is NO good reason to do _____” and “get over here, NOW” are all often heard phrases. All of them come out sounding really pissed-off. The little ladies, however, know sarcasm, employ it appropriately, and will talk back (when appropriate to do so.)
Now if the woman was saying hurtful things, that’s a different story. Was she insulting her child or was she disciplining her? How did the daughter respond? What does “browbeating and chastising” consist of? Was she telling her to sit up straight and eat all her food or was she telling her what a useless human she was? Your OP says very little about the facts, just your impressions.
Peace - DESK
In the case of the woman I saw, she was saying things like “No, it was the war of 1812.” or “Go to the bathroom before we leave.” and “Put on your coat.” Just normal things, but she said them in a really sharp and scathing tone. It wasn’t a speech impediment issue with her because she spoke to me perfectly normally. She just talked to the kid like she hated her.
No, it would not be okay, but on the other hand it’s not okay either to say of the woman, “Don’t have any more kids, you fucking cunt” on the flimsy evidence provided in the OP.
We really are too quick to condemn sometimes.
Do you really think this is a good idea, and it wouldn’t undermine the parents and make the kid’s relationship with them even worse? I’m honestly asking because I have a couple of nieces who are being raised in ways I don’t agree with, and sometimes I would like to tell the kids (the youngest one who is virtually ignored in favour of her tantrum-throwing sister especially) that there are people who care about them who think they’re great.
I’d never try to undermine my BIL, much as I disagree with him. But I did, very unsubtly, tell my nephew if he wanted to come to college around here, he could live with me. Is that naughty of me?
Can we hit them with something? Like a frozen goose? Or maybe a duck? Cuz I’ve been thinking about doing that lately. Just a little bit. Please? 
-Weirddave, father of a 12 Y.O. boy
Pillow fight? Some pillows are firmer than others. I’m just sayin’…
I think I got lucky. My daughter was pretty good at 12. She held it all in till she hit 17. Yeah, that was fun times. At 20, she’s almost like a real human being again.
Kids need adults in their lives who are not their parents who love them and that they can depend on. Growing up, it made a world of difference knowing that if things got bad at home (and they sometimes did) that I could go over to my aunt and uncle’s for an afternoon or an overnight stay. I feel so sorry for children who grow up without any grandparents or aunts or family friends who will provide that kind of support.
Yeah, it was like that. The bold print sums it up.
You don’t know if the kid had been a holy terror all morning and was being docile now because the mother had finally gotten on her case.
I know sometimes it probably sounds to outsiders like I don’t like my girl. Honestly, some days she’s hard to like. When my daughter and I have days where she has pissed me off to no end my tone of voice with her is unfriendly. I say the minimum necessary to get her to do what needs to be done because it’s likely I’ve spent all day repeating myself ad nauseum and have snapped for the day. Particularly when she’s done something especially egregious and she knows better.
No, this is not acceptable. How do you talk to a co-worker whom you can’t stand?
How old is your child? Under 5’s don’t “get it” as much as we would like to think they do. Over 5’s can have ber good reasons for misbehavior, sometimes.
Why is OK to treat kids like shit? If you talked to me that way, you’d get snapped at right back. What is the purpose of continuing to speak to a child this way, once the child has calmed down and is now behaving?
I understand snapping at a kid–I have done it, too often. But you cannot hold a grudge against a child, not even for a day. The behavior that is being modelled is one of holding onto anger and manipulating someone else with anger. Ugh.
I have apologized to my kids more than once for losing it with them–but my words meant nothing if I continued to do the equivalent of an adult sulk at them.
And finally, there is the point that shopping or eating out or whatever with kids can be enjoyable–why not try to make it so for all concerned? Of course, this means actually being interested in the kid, and not pre-occupied with your own troubles etc. It’s not always easy, but better than a vicious cycle of initial minor bad behavior, lecture and/or correction, and then rubbing the lesson in over 24 hours by treating the kid like a pariah. The kid stopped listening long ago–why keep it up? Over time, the kid listens less and less, but has internalized the message that they aren’t worth much or can’t do much (if anything) right-so why bother?
And I would most definetly tell the kid that s/he is welcome at your house anytime. I might go so far as to say that perhaps Dad is a bit hard on you, followed by a “I’m sure he loves you very much.”
Although, I am not sure about that last bit–afterall, there are any number of parents who do not love their children.
So are we all agreed that it’s unacceptable to speak so harshly to a child, *and * that we (well, those of us who have daily contact with children) have done it anyway?
My daughter is a great kid. She still pisses me off sometimes, and when that happens, I likely to speak to her in a way that doesn’t call to mind puppies and rainbows.
I’m not saying that the woman in the OP is a good parent, but we don’t really know, do we? On the one hand, I’m always inclined to think that the way people behave publicly should probably be intensified tenfold to imagine how they behave privately. On the other, I’m sure that I’ve spoken harshly to my daughter in public at some point. I’d hate to think that any one bad moment defines our relationship, or my parenting skills.
I’ve seen this kind of behavior, too, and it sickens me. I always try to do something about it.
Not that you can change parents - you can’t. Chastizing strangers doesn’t work well under any circumstances. But you can (1) model appropriate behavior by speaking to these children directly, in a respectful and enthusiastic manner, and (2) remark to the parent that you find his/er child delightful.
As to the reason why people behave so abominably towards their children, I think it’s b/c they see the child as a miniature version of themselves. And they don’t like themselves in the least.
People who are genuinely happy with their own existence couldn’t not treat their children with love and respect.
Hey, I can understand speaking harshly for a few minutes to show the kid how upset you are, but it’s a little extreme to carry it for the rest of the day. It’s holding a grudge and that’s not a good thing to teach your kid.
As eleanorigby said, would you do that to an adult co-worker? They piss you of in the morning, so the rest of the day you talk to them like you can’t stand them?
And, yes, I didn’t know the woman I saw, or what their home life is really like, but it seemed to be her “natural” tone when she was talking to the kid.
Oops, I jumped in based on the OP & the one about the BIL/nephew — yep, every parent can have a bad day. No - make that every parent HAS bad days, as does every child.
Which is all the more reason to offer some positive remarks.
When my little buggers have been shits all morning, it cracks me up when Auntie drops by in the afternoon and raves about how delightful they are. Helps to remind me that yeah, they’re usually wonderful, and it often turns my mood around.
If you show your kids you’re good at holding grudges, they will become good at holding grudges. Against you.
Speaking from experience.