# Don't know much about history **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561 "2004-11-02T15:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/1 "2004-11-02T15:52:12Z")
As is my wont, I’m reading some military alternative history fiction that focuses on the Byzantine empire. This is actually the third book I’ve read that retells interesting bits of Byzantium-- and it’s a topic that I learned absosmurfly nothing about long ago in school. In fact, there are great big gaping holes in my knowledge of history, since high school just glosses over everything from homo erectus to WWII. Is there any great book out there that rectifies this? That delves into the Axums in Ethiopia, life under Genghis Khan, the Middle Kingdom, Rome (or Constantinople, or Istanbul)? That discusses the interesting people involved in the 30 years war, Richelieu, Cromwell, the Inquisition, and the plague? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/2 "2004-11-02T16:10:18Z")
You want one book that covers all of that? 🙂 If you want a good book on Byzantium, I’d recommend John Julian Norwich’s three volume “History of Byzantium” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/3 "2004-11-02T16:13:55Z")
Three volumes? Just for the history of **one** empire? Geez, it sounds positively **byzantine** in its complexity! (Ow! Stop hitting!) ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/4 "2004-11-02T16:44:24Z")
You don’t need a book, you have the web. Search for Rome and Byzantium and you’ll find pretty good sites refering to those empires. If you want to read a book you should buy “History of the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire” in 6 (yes six) volumes. The first volume starts with the reign of the Antonines (circa 200 A.D.) the sixth volume ends with the fall of Constantinople in the year 1453. Between those two volumes you’ll learn about the roman empire and it’s succesors (The bizantine empire, the european kingdoms, the papacy and The holy Roman Germanic Empire), in fact when you finish reading it you’ll be able to understand the evolution that took humanity from the Roman Empire to modern western society.- The book is not perfect, Gibbon, (the author) was pretty prejudiced against Christianity, (specially the church). The best thing about the book is that eventhough it is “hard history” it’s very entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/5 "2004-11-02T16:49:49Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > If you want to read a book you should buy “History of the Decline and fall of the Roman Empire” in 6 (yes six) volumes. > The book is not perfect, Gibbon, (the author) was pretty prejudiced against Christianity, (specially the church). Hehe, I guess that comes naturally, when you look critically at the skeletons in the closet of the Church!! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/6 "2004-11-02T16:50:29Z")
**Barbarian** - Are you reading \*Agent of Byzantium \* by **Harry Turtledove** , by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/7 "2004-11-02T17:03:09Z")
I doubt it. He’s still interested in the Byzantine Empire, isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/8 "2004-11-02T18:14:00Z")
Sounds more like the Belisarius series from Drake & Flint. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/9 "2004-11-02T18:33:15Z")
Could be Guy Gavriel Kay’s “Sailing to Sarantium,” which is my favorite of his. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/10 "2004-11-04T11:21:41Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Don’t know much about history Don’t know much about Biology, But I do know… …ooops, misunderstood thread :o ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/11 "2004-11-05T07:13:51Z")
**Smeghead** and **UncaStuart** have hit this particular nail on the head, although I’ve read Turtledove’s _Misplaced Legion_ series… And I will look at the suggestionsl earlier up. But does anyone have any ideas about later history? I mean, high school texts _aim_ to cover this material all the time. Surely someone’s got something decent out there? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/12 "2004-11-05T11:52:49Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > **Smeghead** and **UncaStuart** have hit this particular nail on the head, although I’ve read Turtledove’s _Misplaced Legion_ series… > > And I will look at the suggestionsl earlier up. But does anyone have any ideas about later history? I mean, high school texts _aim_ to cover this material all the time. Surely someone’s got something decent out there? You’re asking for a lot from one book. Have you checked out the Oxford history series? Rubicon by Holland(?) is a superb popular history account of the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/13 "2004-11-05T16:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Three volumes? Just for the history of one empire? Young pups nowadays. No tenacity. Why back in my day we’d read five volumes of Byzantine history before breakfast … in the original Greek! grumble grumble mutter Anticipating just such a reaction, Lord Norwich also wrote a one volume condensation of his original history. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/14 "2004-11-05T16:36:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > **Barbarian** - Are you reading \*Agent of Byzantium \* by **Harry Turtledove** , by any chance? At least, we can hope he’s not reading _ **Evening** in Byzantium_. Which got made into a TV movie/miniseries back in the 1970s. All I remember about it was (A) a young woman deliberately had sex with her biological father who had abandonded her so long ago that he didn’t recognize her, and (B) somebody wrote a book featuring an atomic bomb on little bitty train tracks inside an airliner, and some kook decided to make the book’s plot happen in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/15 "2004-11-05T19:18:28Z")
- Constantinople: the Forgotten Empire\* and Isaac Asomov’s other histories (such as _The Shaping of England; the Shaping of France; the Egyptians; the Roman Republic; The Roman Empire; The Greeks; The Dark Ages_) Although these books are written for the juvenile reader, they are a great, quick introduction into the history of various areas. I’m not sure they are still in print, but I’ve had luck in libraries. Once I get a general overview from a book like these, I find it easier to find books are more specific perios, rulers, or aspects of the society. Also worth looking at is the Durants’ _The Story of Civilization_. Again, this is more of an overview, perhaps concentrating of a few rulers or perios in depth, but it is a way to narrow the focus. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/16 "2004-11-05T19:23:34Z")
I seem to be rationing “d’s” today. Please insert where appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/17 "2004-11-05T21:15:09Z")
For a fun overview, get _Larry Gonick’s Cartoon History of the Universe._ Part 1: “From the Big Bang to Alexander the Great” ISBN# 0-385-26520-4 Part 2: “From the Springtime of China to the Fall of Rome” ISBN# 0-385-42093-5 Part 3: “From the Rise of Arabia to the Renaissance” ISBN# 0-393-32403-6 Then look in the back of each book for the bibliographies. You could start a pretty good library with Gonick’s sources. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/18 "2004-11-06T00:05:41Z")
You need Colin McEvedy’s historical atlases, specifically [The Penguin Atlas of Ancient Hstory and The Penguin Atlas of Medieval History](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140513485/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/104-9946064-8340762?v=glance&s=books&st=*). McEvedy steps through European history at roughly hundred-year intervals. He uses the same map for each step so you can really get a sense of how different civilizations ebb and flow. And the high-level historical summary that accompanies each map is witty and succint. These two books (and their two companion volumes that cover the Renaissance and recent history) do a wonderful job of establishing a historical framework for other historical reading. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-know-much-about-history/272561/19 "2004-11-06T12:39:50Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > … in the original Greek! Hey fishie, note the username-- I’m just a stinkin’ foreigner who doesn’t understand greek!