# Don't leave her at the mercy of barbaric 20th-century medicine! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763 "2017-09-19T21:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/21 "2017-09-20T04:12:55Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > Pretty much this. Thankfully your wife is aware enough to notice these things, and that she has you to advocate for her care. Just remember, as has already been said, that you need to be tactful and polite in dealing with the people there. > > It’s hard to tell what sort of facility your wife is in from what you wrote, but nursing home aides (and other types of nursing assistants as well) are typically paid jack-shit, so many of these types of facilities are chronically short-handed and the aides are overworked on top of having a low-prestige but highly demanding job. Interacting with the ones you see and getting to know them is a good strategy, for both your wife and you. If they like you and feel they know you, it’s going to help improve her care - they’ll care more and be willing to do more if asked directly. This ^ is accurate. CNAs or whatever they are called there are paid near or minimum wage. They may only have the training provided by the facility they work at. It could be that aides first week. Make friends not enemies. I am an RN and no that behavior is not acceptable. I find it hard to imagine that the aide thought it was. PS. My well wishes to your wife and yourself. I know she didn’t volunteer for the title, but she IS a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/22 "2017-09-20T04:14:43Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > The people cleaning up aren’t medical professionals. Buy some dish detergent and sponges and leave them instructions on how to clean (kinda ‘if you want something done right, do it yourself’). Jeebus. I’m. Not a medical professional either, and “don’t dunk the urinal in the toilet and set it on the lunch table” seems pretty damn obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/23 "2017-09-20T05:16:29Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Jeebus. I’m. Not a medical professional either, and “don’t dunk the urinal in the toilet and set it on the lunch table” seems pretty damn obvious to me. Damn, this. The urinal should never be rinsed in the toilet water, ferchrissakes. It doesn’t matter if it’s been flushed and the water is supposedly “clean.” Depending on the facility, there may be a tap right at the toilet, so it can be rinsed out with clean water and dumped back in the toilet. But at a minimum, after dumping the urine in the toilet it should be taken to the sink and rinsed. And it should never be placed on a surface. As mentioned in the OP, it should be hung on the bed frame by the handle. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/24 "2017-09-20T05:29:55Z")
(never mind) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/25 "2017-09-20T14:49:35Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The urinal should never be rinsed in the toilet water Really, it’s more fundamental than this seemingly obvious conclusion: the phrase “rinsed in the toilet” should never occur EVER. Because, really, WTF? I don’t even leave the toilet brush “rinsed in the toilet.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/26 "2017-09-20T14:51:22Z")
Sorry to hear that, **Sailboat** , and best wishes for your wife’s recovery! Hope the hospital heeds y’all’s complaints! ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/27 "2017-09-20T15:02:50Z")
Here’s hoping **Sailboat** ’s next post is “I spoke to someone and already the urinal has come back clean and hung on the bed.” Good god, dude. What a shame ☹ ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/28 "2017-09-20T15:38:08Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Really, it’s more fundamental than this seemingly obvious conclusion: the phrase “rinsed in the toilet” should never occur EVER. > > Because, really, WTF? I don’t even leave the toilet brush “rinsed in the toilet.” Wait, where do you rinse a toilet brush? In the sink? That seems far more horrible than just rinsing it in the toilet after you’ve used it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/29 "2017-09-20T16:00:18Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > My wife is currently in a rehab facility learning to walk again on two broken legs and a broken hand after a murder attempt. I’m happy to hear your wife is on the mend. > [@](#): > > Despite the attack and her long painful recovery, she has kept up a positive attitude. But being trapped in medical facilities for a month has been tough; she has so little control over her circumstances. Which is why you need to watch this place like a hawk. I agree that a nice smile and being pleasant goes a long way, but the more you’re around and letting people know you’re aware of what’s going on the better. This is also a good reason to have other visitors keep an eye out for you. However, your wife’s circumstances are atypical. You mentioned at one point there was a guard for patients affected by the incident, is that still in effect? > [@](#): > > The thing hangs on her bedframe and is her companion and a trophy of progress. It touches her hands and skin, but it’s rinsed after each use and she’s not too worried about its cleanliness, urine being essentially sterile. > > Today the nursing assistant dumped it out and returned it dripping wet to her tray table. OK. Urinals do NOT go on the tray table. They should, as you stated, hang on the bedframe or be on some surface OTHER than where food is served and personal activities take place. When you make your polite, rational complaint please point this out, that placing a urinal where food trays are placed at other times of the day is not good hygiene. > [@](#): > > Hesitant to jump to conclusions, she waited until the next time the urinal was emptied (same staff member). Pour, flush, returned rinsed and dripping wet…no sink. “How did you do that so fast?” she asked. > > He told her – he poured it into the toilet, flushed, then immersed it in the toilet bowl and swished it around. You need to bring this to the attention of the facility. The proper people - nurse managers, ombudsman, patient advocate, have all been mentioned. Be calm and rational. Focus on problem _solving_. If I was doing this I would, as noted, point out that this is not a hygienic practice. That the staff member needs to be retrained and stop doing doing this. Your wife’s tray table should be sanitized. Don’t mention lawyers and suing. The hospital where my late husband spent entirely too much of his final months had a device attached to the toilet (a sort of wand) that allowed rinsing of such things at the toilet without using the sink OR the toilet bowl. It could be that this staff member was told to use such a wand and misunderstood. As noted, this could be a new person. In any case, the facility would VERY much want to know about what’s going on because this sort of thing can most certainly lead to lawsuits, but they want to learn about it in a non-confrontational manner. Approach it as “there’s a problem that needs to be fixed” rather than WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!?! > [@](#): > > She called me in tears. If this is what they’re comfortable admitting, what else might be happening? _Probably_ nothing - this sort of misconduct is not the norm (thank Og!). However, a little paranoia is understandable at this point and not entirely uncalled for. Frankly, a little paranoia in a medical facility is always a good tactic Your wife should feel free to question any aspect of her care, as should you. If it has not already been made official, get legal documentation that you are your wife’s health care proxy and able to speak/act on her behalf. This should not be difficult, in my state it’s a one-page form, and make sure all health providers have a copy. Keep your eyes open when you visit the facility. Ask questions. I’ve found it’s best to frame them as “I just want to understand this better…” or “This seems to be a problem, can we talk about how to resolve/fix it?” rather than going in guns blazing. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/30 "2017-09-20T18:08:09Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Wait, where do you rinse a toilet brush? In the sink? That seems far more horrible than just rinsing it in the toilet after you’ve used it. Not if you clean the sink afterwards. Which is the proper order of operations. Geez, people, do I have to do all your thinking for you? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/31 "2017-09-20T18:52:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The hospital where my late husband spent entirely too much of his final months had a device attached to the toilet (a sort of wand) that allowed rinsing of such things at the toilet without using the sink OR the toilet bowl. It could be that this staff member was told to use such a wand and misunderstood. Yeah, this was what I meant. It swings down over the bowl and is meant for washing bedpans, urinals, and other such devices without contaminating the sink. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bAKRmPazCUw/maxresdefault.jpg) ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bAKRmPazCUw/maxresdefault.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/32 "2017-09-20T22:23:50Z")
Well, the rehab center management reacted strongly enough to our complaint to mollify my wife, who is feeling much better. The offending nursing assistant has been put on restricted duty and training has been ordered for the floor staff. I did go over and assist her in bathing (after rubbing down the shower chair with antiseptic wipes). We are still keeping a polite eye on everything. Thanks for the sympathy, all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/33 "2017-09-20T22:56:44Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, the rehab center management reacted strongly enough to our complaint to mollify my wife, who is feeling much better. The offending nursing assistant has been put on restricted duty and training has been ordered for the floor staff. > > I did go over and assist her in bathing (after rubbing down the shower chair with antiseptic wipes). > > We are still keeping a polite eye on everything. > > Thanks for the sympathy, all. Glad to hear it! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/34 "2017-09-20T23:59:17Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, the rehab center management reacted strongly enough to our complaint to mollify my wife, who is feeling much better. The offending nursing assistant has been put on restricted duty and training has been ordered for the floor staff. > > I did go over and assist her in bathing (after rubbing down the shower chair with antiseptic wipes). > > We are still keeping a polite eye on everything. > > Thanks for the sympathy, all. Excellent! Chances are the other staff know this nursing assisting has been messing up, and they’re glad someone spoke up, because they really can’t. Many hugs to both of you. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/35 "2017-09-21T00:04:05Z")
Good that management reacted well. I hope things go better. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/36 "2017-09-21T01:02:33Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > We are still keeping a polite eye on everything. Excellent. Keep it up until she’s released, which I hope will be soon. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763/37 "2017-09-21T14:26:46Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, the rehab center management reacted strongly enough to our complaint to mollify my wife, who is feeling much better. The offending nursing assistant has been put on restricted duty and training has been ordered for the floor staff. > > I did go over and assist her in bathing (after rubbing down the shower chair with antiseptic wipes). > > We are still keeping a polite eye on everything. > > Thanks for the sympathy, all. I’m glad to see management taking this seriously. Poor health worker antiseptic practice is a huge source of nosocomial infection. Your case seems to be the most egregious case of “poor antiseptic practice” I’ve ever heard of… I’m glad they’re turning it around. I hope everyone involved will take the lesson professionally. To me, it’s sad that a lot of folks involved in medicine aren’t really professionals, just trying to earn their minimum wage (sometimes with minimum effort). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-leave-her-at-the-mercy-of-barbaric-20th-century-medicine/796763.md?page=1)