# Don't let the bastards get you down **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245 "2000-03-24T21:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/1 "2000-03-24T21:52:00Z")
If could ask a few questions on this?. First, is _Nil Illegitimi carborundem_ a proper Latin translation? Seems like there are too few words. How does the Latin translate literally? Why is it in Latin (or rather, why do I associate it with Latin) in the first place? Lastly, I have found several references to it on the net… does anyone have the SD on its origin? Thanks, ## Rhythmdvl (Wondering if my attempt to quit smoking has anything to do with this phrase) Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right… ---
**Author:** ![Fillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/2acd7d/32.png) [@Fillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fillet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/2 "2000-03-24T22:09:00Z")
I have a paperweight that says, “Illegitimi non carborundum est”; maybe that’s an appropriate alternate translation? Sorry, I don’t know why it’s in Latin, or where it came from… ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/3 "2000-03-24T22:29:00Z")
From what I know of Latin, the second translation is utterly horrible. It loosely translates as something like “Bastards are not carborundum” - not to mention that the adjective _carborundum_ is in the singular, while _illegitimi_ is in the plural. Gonna have to go find my old textbooks. * * * All I wanna do is to thank you, even though I don’t know who you are… ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/4 "2000-03-24T22:31:00Z")
I found this. What does “Illegitimi non carborundum” mean? It doesn’t really mean anything; it is ‘joke’ Latin, using fake roots which the English reader will be able to guess. It’s intended to mean" Don’t let the bastards(= " illegitimi" ) wear you down (= “carborundum”)." Correct Latin for this would be “Non conterendus est nothis.” But who would get the joke? The slogan may have been invented in the R.A.F. during World War II, and it has enjoyed wide-spread popularity ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/5 "2000-03-24T22:34:00Z")
Olentzero, carborundum is not an adjective, but a verb form. Remember _Delenda est Carthago_ = Carthage must be destroyed (Carthage is “to be destroyed.”) With that being said, I don’t remember seeing a verb to correspond to “carborundum”. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/6 "2000-03-24T23:20:00Z")
(Sigh.) No, they’re not real Latin words. Yes, it’s a joke. I believe it originated in British prep schools, where they have a very strange sense of humor. The grammatical construction is called a “passive periphrastic” – a future passive participle with an imperative sense. In other words, the literal translation would be something like “It should not be ground down by the bastard.” “Illegitimi” is a singular dative of agent, not a plural nominative, so Olentzero’s objection doesn’t apply. In any case, “carborundum” would agree with the (unspecified) subject, not the agent. It’s OK to leave out forms of the verb “to be,” so either “Illegitimi non carborundum” or “Illegitimi non carborundum est” is acceptable. * * * “I can’t think why fancy religions should have such a ghastly effect on one’s grammar.” – Dorothy L. Sayers ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/7 "2000-03-24T23:30:00Z")
I always heard it as _nolite te illegitimi carborundorum_. By the way, the term for a phrase like this in joke Latin or using Latin endings is a “macaronic”. Another one: What is it that roareth thus? Can it be a motor bus? Yes, the smell and hideous hum _Indicat motorem bum!_ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/8 "2000-03-25T07:34:00Z")
In _The Handmaid’s Tale_, by Margeret Atwood, the phrase nolite te bastardes caborundorum is used. * * * -Dave “Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.” -Albert Einstein ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2000, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/9 "2000-03-25T08:50:00Z")
Fabricati Diem, Punc. * * * [The Legend Of PigeonMan](http://www.hotkey.net.au/~guanolad/pigeonman/) - **Shadow of the Pigeon** - Weirdo of the Night ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/10 "2000-03-26T05:01:00Z")
I stand corrected by **Fretful Porpentine** , and gladly admit to it. My Latin was sketchy at best when it was current and I was going on what I remembered I knew. **matt\_mcl** , that’s actually the first four lines of an entire poem that declines the phrase ‘motor bus’ as if it were Latin. My sister has it in a book she got several Christmases ago, and with the Board’s permission I’m going to get her to send it to me and reprint it here. For us linguophiles it’s a laff riot. There’s also another one, starts like this: _The nox was lit by lux of Luna and 'twas a nox most opportuna to catch a possum or a coona._ Don’t remember the whole thing, it was rather long, but I remember this couplet: _Unum canis, duo puer, Nunquam braver, nunquam truer…_ Hmmm… not a bad sig line, now that I look at it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/11 "2000-03-26T15:04:00Z")
I have a squadron (USN) patch that is entirely black, (note: Naval squadron patches tend to be about 4" diameter, with a “ribbon” or “banner” at the bottom, and maybe one at the top) with red borders around the outside and the banner. There is red lettering around the inner-top and inner-bottom which reads: _Si ego certiorem facem… mihi tu delendus eres_. (I don’t have it in front of me, so I’m guessing at the spelling.) Latin experts, does it mean what it’s supposed to mean? * * * “I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry Are you a turtle? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/12 "2000-03-26T15:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Si ego certiorem facem… mihi tu delendus eres Wow, it’s been a few years, but let’s see… Si = if ego = I certior = faster facem = some form of “make” so my guess for the first half is “if I make more speed” mihi = (by) me tu = you delendus eres = something along the lines of “will be destroyed” So altogether I think it means something along the lines of “If I make more speed, you will be destroyed by me.” But my Latin is so rusty, you should wait for some more opinions to come in. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/13 "2000-03-26T23:49:00Z")
It’s supposed to mean “If I told you, I’d have to kill you.” * * * “I must leave this planet, if only for an hour.” – Antoine de St. Exupéry Are you a turtle? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/14 "2000-03-27T04:38:00Z")
I don’t know if it’s where it originated, but the phrase “don’t let the bastards grind you down” was popularized in Allan Sillitoe’s 1958 novel _Saturday Night and Sunday Morning_. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-the-bastards-get-you-down/9245/15 "2000-03-27T14:29:00Z")
Crap, certiorem facem = make more certain faster = celior. Damn Olympic motto was confusing me “Altior, celior, fortior” is “higher, faster, stronger”. I was transposing the rt from fortior into celior as well. Damn, I’m so dumb sometimes. The second part is about as I rendered it, with an imperative mood to it “you will have to be destroyed by me”.