# Don't let your kids pay for the delivery pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384 "2002-12-22T14:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/181 "2002-12-24T06:26:44Z")
e coli and salmonella being such amusing little diseases that it makes complete sense to try and murder your customers. Of course the sequalae of a Health Dept inspection is even more amusing if the restaurant gets shut down. I’ve worked in fast food, I know it can get bad, but I cannot imagine any customer who would infuriate me to the point that I would try and give them food poisoning. That’s just wrong. Toilet water? My god. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/182 "2002-12-24T06:29:48Z")
Before I start this response to **Bad News Baboon** I’d like to ask him/her…have you even READ this thread? Because what you’re saying doesn’t make any sort of sense. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bad News Baboon \* > \*\*In a nice retaurant, one can make $150+ in tips, for a saturday’s night work? > > and still the complaining?\*\* Um, noones complaining. The servers and X-servers here are trying to explain the importance of tipping. Catch up. > [@](#): > > damn, I sure did waste my time going to college. Bitter much? You just might have. Are you accusing some of us of lying about how much we pulled/pull in? To make good money like that you have to work in a good place. To work in a good place you have to be a good server. Waiting tables is damn hard work. > [@](#): > > No offense to you all, but very very few people have an easy job. > We could all write lists (comprising reams of paper) about the shit we all put up with at work. _Really???_ Because I thought waiting tables was the only hard job there was?? Once again, I’ll say it for you slow…the servers here are explaining the system. They’re not whining and moaning about their jobs. > [@](#): > > It comes down to this: if you don’t like your job… quit. Where are you getting this? Most of the people in this thread are **X** servers. Only a couple are still in the biz. Once again, catch up. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > When I go out I tip well…usually about 20 to 25%. > I also tip well to all service people because I know how hard the work can be. So then, where are all these smartass remarks coming from? You just did a 180 there with no explanation. > [@](#): > > but, if I get crappy service, I will leave next to nothing as a tip. > If I go again (IF), and if the service is bad or what have you, > well, I don’t have to worry about crappy service the next go round because there won’t be another go round. > > There are way too many restaurants, hair salons, pizza places out there to feel compelled to accept this ‘blackmail’ of crappy service. That sounds perfectly reasonable. And common. In fact, it’s been said many times on this thread already. Am I missing something here? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/183 "2002-12-24T07:28:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by auntie em \* > \*\*Also, I’m told that each dancer is required to pay _the club_ 30 bucks to work for an evening, so if she doesn’t get enough lap dances, and only walks away with, say, 25 bucks from her stage dances (which go on rotation, so the number of times she gets on stage in an evening depends upon how many women are working that night), she’s basically just paid 5 bucks to show other people her titties. \*\* Yup. Table dances is where you make the money (never count on stage tips… sometimes you get lucky, but often several girls will go up in a row and not a single dollar will be tipped), and everywhere I ever worked you had to pay the club for the privelege of working, plus tip the dj, bartender, etc a percentage of what you earned. So your income was tips minus shift fee minus tipout. Sometimes it meant you made great money. Sometimes it meant that you lost money, especially if you took a cab to work ☹ I’d still rather go back to that than to waiting tables though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/184 "2002-12-24T07:35:44Z")
I hate the tipping scam too. I, the customer, shouldn’t be saddled with worrying about if the wait staff is making a good living or not. But…☹ Seeing that that is how it is…I’m actually a good tipper… **IF** I get good service. (I usually tip about 25-30% if the service is very good). If the service is not good, you’ll get nothing. And I mean **NOTHING!**. My wife could tell you a dozen stories where I handed the waitress 2 pennies and said “You suck!”.) It’s true! But I’m willing to pay the price when the service is good. Delivery people almost always get good tips from me. what the OP is talking about is another case of people treating their children like equals!:mad: Why the fuck are you letting a CHILD answer the door by themselves? They deserve to grieve over his grave!!! I don’t care if you “knew” who it was. A delivery person is still a stranger. And children are not qualified to make business transactions, even simple ones like accepting a pizza. Not to tell you your business, but I wouldn’t even have given the pizza to a child. Get your parents or **NO SOUP FOR YOU!** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/185 "2002-12-24T07:44:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingRiddles \* > \*\* > Bartenders in restaurants, do you declare your server tips, or just the bar tips?\*\*) \*\* I declare 12% of my cash sales, on average…and my checks are usually about $70 every two weeks. Sometimes that 12% includes server tips, sometimes not. Depends on the bar gods. My credit card tips are of course declared automatically, so Uncle Sam usually gets his fair share of the whole thing. _shrug_ Until Uncle Sam sees fit to slap the lobbyists and raise minimum wage beyond $2.13 an hour for me, I don’t really care how much money he gets or doesn’t get. Tell him to go after the golden parachutes of corporate America…he’ll get quite a bigger chunk of change. (Not to mention all the drunken debauchery that goes onto Official Government credit cards…the ones that say “For official government use only.” May I just say that Uncle Sam is, himself, a really bad tipper?) Anyone with half a brain knows that they’re supposed to tip, so unless the service is horrendously bad, all this justification for NOT tipping, or tipping really badly, is just that. A reason to be cheap. If you have an ethical/moral/whatever soapbox on the question, the answer is simple…don’t go to restaurants where you are waited on. To go to a restaurant where you are waited on, and then cry about WHY you have to tip, is really stupid. You knew that when you walked in the door…why didn’t you stay at home? Go to Sonic? Taco Cabana? The local counter-service burger stand? Just think–you won’t have to bring the calculator, or the attitude, or all the justifications! You can just get up and SERVE YOURSELF! Meanwhile, the people who aren’t quite so anal will be enjoying great service and excellent food while getting on with their lives. (I know this is hard to believe, but it happens every day.) Oh, and **k2Dave** , I’ve always tipped on the post-tax amount. Why? I guess, honestly, I was just never so bored I even bothered to look…we’re talking dimes here. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/186 "2002-12-24T07:53:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kiteboy \* > \*\*Anectdote: > > My friend Steve is out with a few friends at a restaurant where the tablecloths are some kind of paper, and each table has a box of crayons on it, in addition to napins/salt/pepper/wahtever. The idea is that you can entertain yourself by drawing on the table while you’re there. Maybe it’s a family restaurant kind of thing, I dunno. Afterwards, take the tablecloth home if you want. > > After seating them, the Waiter is back for drink orders, and as he is taking them, Steve starts writing on the corner of the table, right in front of him: “Tip: 15%”. Waiter begins to make friendly chit chat. But Steve is not a chit chat sort of guy, and crosses out “15%” and writes “13%”. Waiter takes the hint, leaves and gets the drinks. He returns promptly, the drinks are correct, and Steve crosses out 13%, writes 15% again. Waiter takes food orders. Waiter offers some suggestive selling - nope, Steve knows what he wants, down to 14%. A reasonably quick time later, the food comes, the orders are correct, Steve writes 16%. The Waiter proves to be good at keeping drinks filled - 18%. Check arrives at just the right time when Steve & friends are ready to leave - 20%. \*\* Was it the Macaroni Grill? Your friend Steve’s little game sounds patronizing, humiliating, and unneccessary. Total aside: you know those times when people tip more than 100%? Doesn’t that just make your night? Like getting a $20 tip for a $15 check… _sigh_ I loved that. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/187 "2002-12-24T07:54:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingRiddles \* > \*\*B.) Why should I tip a delivery person or server when I don’t tip Joe the Grocer? > Joe doesn’t bring your food to your house. There’s a reason why McDonald’s and Burger King are the two largest chains: the food is fast and you don’t have to pay for service. But if you want to be waited on, and desire a certain level of food/wine knowledge, then either be prepared to tip 15% or go to McDonald’s. > \*\* I’m still boggled by Dunkin Doughnuts, then. And I’ve seen it at a few McDonalds, the occasional framing store, a hot dog stand once, and once at a book store, IIRC. Frankly, I think the framing store had a good claim on the concept, but still. Okay. So… How about the customer’s side? If we’re going to tip, we should have, at the least, personalized service. More than going to a cash register, giving money, and getting product. If we do tip well, and you see it before we leave, like in a bar, with a continuing event, we expect good service in return. Maybe even a smile. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/188 "2002-12-24T08:00:38Z")
What is a “busboy”? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/189 "2002-12-24T08:01:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingRiddles \* > \*\* If your personal server sucked, and some OTHER server was really taking care of you, tell the manager. If enough people did that, the bad servers would get fired, and we’d all get better service. Yeah. PLUS, the good servers would get the 20% they deserve, instead of getting punished for a coworker’s incompitance. \*\* Whenever this has happened, I’ll leave a minimal tip on the table, and hand the other server the “real” tip. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/190 "2002-12-24T08:05:41Z")
Just out of interest, does the minimum wage in the US vary from state to state, or is it federally determined; and is it related to age in any way? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/191 "2002-12-24T08:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*what the OP is talking about is another case of people treating their children like equals!:mad: Why the fuck are you letting a CHILD answer the door by themselves? They deserve to grieve over his grave!!! I don’t care if you “knew” who it was. A delivery person is still a stranger. > And children are not qualified to make business transactions, even simple ones like accepting a pizza. \*\* I’ve already said that I let my son (age 7) get the pizza when it comes to the door. I’m also always right there, close by but not in the way. I also let him go to a neighbor’s house (gasp) all by himself! Omigod! outside without holding my hand?! Would I let him answer the door if I wasn’t expecting someone? No. Would I let him answer the door if I was upstairs or somewhere other than right nearby? No. Would I let him take the check to the pizza guy while I’m watching? Yes, and I don’t deservec to “grieve over his grave” for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/192 "2002-12-24T08:14:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*Just out of interest, does the minimum wage in the US vary from state to state, or is it federally determined; and is it related to age in any way? \*\* It is federal (or at least there is a federal one… states may have their own that can’t be lower than federal… or at least this is what I think… oh heck don’t cite me in a paper or anything cuz I really don’t know for sure!) and not based on age. Until this thread, I’d never heard of wages based on age before. A busboy is a person who “busses” the table. Bussing is taking the dirty dishes away and washing the table. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/193 "2002-12-24T08:21:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Until this thread, I’d never heard of wages based on age before. So that would mean that in the US there is no financial advantage for fast food chains in hiring high school students. Here, on the other hand, giving a shift to a 15 year old rather than an 18 year old represents significant savings (around 40% - 50%) on wage costs for that particular shift. Bars here often have people whose sole job is to pick up glasses, clean ashstrays, and wipe tables. In restaurants, it’s most often done by the servers themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/194 "2002-12-24T08:23:45Z")
I gotta agree with **Opalcat** , Steve’s little crayon game sounds totally humilating. I would have been so uncomfortable with that scenario I would have avoided the table as much as possible. And maybe it would have cost me a decent tip from Steve, that’s okay, even as a lowly wait person I still had some self respect. It wouldn’t have been worth 5 bucks (or whatever) to have someone play psycho mind games over money I need for rent. Steve can take his crayons and stick them where they sun don’t shine. **Reprise** A busboy (and I guess “busser” is the appropriate term since it shouldn’t be gender specific) are the folks that clean up the tables after people get up. In my restaurant, servers were responsible for clearing everything they could (plates, empty glasses, dirty ashtrays, napkins, etc) and when the table left, the bussers would swoop in, grab the last meal detritus on the table, wipe it down and get it clean and ready to be sat. Bussers made minimum wage, but were tipped out as an incentive to clean tables as fast as possible. It was in a server’s best interest to tip the busser’s generously, they also did other stuff for us: get racks of clean glasses from the dish, carpet sweep our sections after some kid threw cheerios all over, refill tea/water, etc. Since the restaurant I worked at served alcohol, servers had to be over 18 so they could serve it. Bussers were typically between 16 and 18; a lot of the bussers “graduated” to servers when they turned 18. As far as the whole “icky things in people’s food,” I can honestly say I _NEVER_ saw it happen during all my days waiting tables. Sure, we TALKED about doing it a lot, but I never saw it happen. One guy did get fired for dropping a kiddie hamburger on the ground on the way up the stairs to the upstairs section and trying to serve it, but he got caught and fired. He wasn’t maliciously trying to get some sort of revenge on a table, he was just a lazy dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/195 "2002-12-24T08:43:21Z")
Here’s a link to the junior employees section of the [Pizza Hut National Award](http://www.sda.org.au/display_page.php3?award_id=51&page_number=9). As you can see, despite the fact that the age of legal adulthood in Australia is 18, for the purposes of the award an employee is not entitled to “adult” wages until they turn 21. Under many awards (I only used Pizza Hut because they’re a company with which everyone is familiar) relating to the fast food and other retail industries in Australia, two people doing exactly the same job for the company can be earning vastly different amounts depending on their age. You’ll find the actual rates of pay [here](http://www.sda.org.au/display_page.php3?award_id=51&page_number=8). The pay rates for delivery drivers are at the very bottom of the page. The same company (Tricon) owns and operates KFC in Australia and I’ve linked to [their award](http://www.sda.org.au/display_page.php3?award_id=89&page_number=5) to give you a basis for comparison. All figures are in Australian dollars - halve them to get a rough idea of the USD value. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/196 "2002-12-24T08:50:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bad News Baboon \* > \*\*In a nice retaurant, one can make $150+ in tips, for a saturday’s night work? > > and still the complaining? > > damn, I sure did waste my time going to college. > > \*\* Well, lets see here: Waitressing with no college education- $400 for the weekend, another $100 for the remaining 2 days = $500/week for about 45 hrs work = ~$2,000 per month or about $24,000 a year. Not waitressing with a college education - ~$900/week for about 40 hours work = ~ $3,600 per month or about $42,000 a year, minus all the people condescending to you, yelling at you, telling you that you’re stupid. Or letting there children run around unattended and then blaiming you when one of them gets hurt. Or the aching legs, or sore back, or greasy clothing, or hideous working conditions, or non-existant benefits. Yes, I can see how the former would be more appealing. Oh. Wait. No I can’t. No one’s complaining here - just pointing out that tipping is a vital part of a server’s income, and if consumers are unwilling to factor this into the price of a night out, then they should just stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/197 "2002-12-24T09:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Glory \* > \*\*Steve can take his crayons and stick them where the sun don’t shine. > > \*\* 😃 I thought the same thing, but if Steve’s server didn’t mind, I guess different strokes, eh? (Or maybe Steve’s server was just really broke.) I had a guy once who laid eight bucks on the bar and said, “Okay. Here’s your tip. Every time I have to ask you for a drink, I’m taking away a dollar. Just remember that.” I said, “I’ll give _you_ eight bucks to leave, how does that grab you?” Anybody with any real clue would have handed me the eight bucks and said, “Remember me.” (I’ve actually had people hand me $20 the moment they sit down. They don’t ever lack for anything, all night long…this game of “Here’s a buck! Now it’s gone! It’s back! It’s gone! Now dance, fool!” is stupid and disrespectful.) The eight dollar guy did, for the record, end up being kicked out of the bar. I saw to it.😃 **Opalcat,** I do remember those 100%-plus people fondly. I had one the other night…gave me $20 on a $19 tab. He said I was a smartass and he wanted to do all he could to encourage that.🆒 ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/198 "2002-12-24T09:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*Here’s a link to the junior employees section of the [Pizza Hut National Award](http://www.sda.org.au/display_page.php3?award_id=51&page_number=9). > > As you can see, despite the fact that the age of legal adulthood in Australia is 18, for the purposes of the award an employee is not entitled to “adult” wages until they turn 21. \*\* Wow. That totally blows. I’ve never heard of anything like that before. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/199 "2002-12-24T10:14:54Z")
It completely blows the week you turn 18 and suddenly all the shifts you’ve worked for years disappear :(. There’s no comeback either, we all knew we were toast once we earned a ‘real’ wage. Never got a tip once in all the years I worked at McDonalds and KFC either. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/200 "2002-12-24T11:14:48Z")
> [@](#): > > If I’m serving two tables the same amount of food, and am giving them the same level of service, PLEASE tell me why I deserve less money because my manager got a good deal on ad space? That’s riduculous. AND cheap. You’re still going to save money. Then why, if you serve two tables the same amount of food and give them the same amount of service do you deserve _more_ money just because one table ordered more expensive food? Either the tip is based on the price or the amount of work. Please don’t make me ask this question again, as you still haven’t explained why the two situations are different. I don’t care which way it goes, as long as it’s consistent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=11)