# Don't let your kids pay for the delivery pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384 "2002-12-22T14:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/341 "2002-12-27T17:19:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > **Sauron** , > > It was implied. Quit being such a literalist. You quoted me in that post and I’ve mentioned many times before and after I posted it that it applied to servers giving adequate service. So did many others. You’re grasping at straws now, and it’s getting really annoying. Really? I’m annoying you? Try being called flat-out a “cheap bastard” or “tightwad” or similar epithets, simply because I’m trying to get a point clarified. See if that gets annoying to you. “Implied” my butt. Tell me what’s “implied” in quotes such as: > [@](#): > > … you’re still a jerk if you don’t tip. Just grit your teeth, quit whining about it, and tip. > [@](#): > > I took a job that paid $3.50 an hour BECAUSE I, my employer and all of the United States Federal Labor Laws EXPECT people to pay 15%. > [@](#): > > Severs are taxed assuming they will be making at least 15% of their total sales in tips, so logically, one would be right in expecting those tips. (Apologies if any of these are your quotes, **lezlers** ; I’m not sure who said what.) The only “implication” I see in any of those quotes is that I should tip, and at least 15 percent, too. I see nothing in there about “if the service is adequate.” **OxyMoron** had it right – it’s the sense of entitlement that bugs me. Do your job as a server, and you’ll get at least 15 percent from me. Do it exceptionally well, and you’ll get considerably more. Do it crappily, and you’ll get less. Oooh, but that makes me a bad man! I’m not tipping right! Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/342 "2002-12-27T18:02:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithnmick \* > **I especially love the way that the folks that have been arguing and quibbling over how much work is involved, percentage of tip that should be left when the entree is expensive…etc also state that they’re always generous tippers.** Wouldn’t it be neat if the reason was that we are all nice people, who understand what you’re talking about. Perhaps we tip well for even decent service, because we are well aware of the peanuts you make? Now at the same time can I still be disgusted by your bitching and sense of entitlement? Could I even humbly suggest that you get the hell off your lousy goddamn ass and find a fucking job where your ability to pay a $30 electric bill is not compromised because someone stiffed you out of 50 cents? > [@](#): > > **I personally think everyone should have to work for tips at some point in their lives. It changes your perspective a lot. I’ve worked as a waiter, bartender and parking valet during my highschool and college years and I think that it really gave me an appreciation for the job and what you appreciate as a server.** I personally think everyone should have to serve in the military at some point in their lives. It changes your perspective a lot. I’ve worked as a bomb loader, warhead tester and parking valet in Israel during my high school and college years and I think that it really gave me an appreciation for the job and for what freedom stands for. Actually lets keep this out of fantasy world shall we? I’m still curious about… I wonder if your owner would be happy with the “don’t bother to come if you won’t tip” statement. I bet they would be happier with 100 customers that tipped 5% then 50 customers that tipped 15% ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/343 "2002-12-27T18:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s an illogical system, but it’s how people are taxed. This Audrey and co. have explained ad nauseam (and I’m not referring to the rare-but-heinous adulteration incidents). Servers’ taxes are based on 15% payouts, whether they actually get it or not. That’s why the default should be 15% unless the service is bad. > > This seems to be where Sauron has a problem, and I think it’s more the result of phrasing than anything else: the thought of “defaults” seems to leave a bad taste in his mouth because (I suspect) it veers close to “entitlement.” That’s a distinction I understand. But in the end, Sauron and Audrey are really advocating the same practice, I believe - they both seem to say that acceptable service is much more the rule than the exception. > > This brings us to our final, catch-all rule: > > Waitstaff are poorly paid. And that’s why you default to the higher option regardless. I file this under a wonderful phrase from Calvin Trillin (actually Trillin’s dad): you might as well be a mensch. The point is, it doesn’t cost that much to tip well - the difference is often a couple of bucks, so why not? Especially when the likelihood is that the server ain’t exactly getting rich. And if you’re in one of the few restaurants where the servers actually do get rich, you’re pretty well bound to be richer still, and the service is pretty well bound to be impeccable and worth every penny. Actually, the sense of entitlement is what’s bothering me as well. Had someone said " And when you’re using a two-fer coupon it’s appreciated if you tip on the pre-discount price", I would have had no problem. Instead, people who don’t tip on the pre-discount price were called “cheap”. And even in your post- It’s one thing to say ( as you did) “the difference is often a couple of bucks, so why not?” and another to say “The waiter is also free to think that you are a cheap bitch who wasn’t content with getting a free entree…you’re a cheap bitch who wants to get out of tipping, too. This is why waiters hate coupons so much; they bring in this type of person in droves.”. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/344 "2002-12-27T18:18:06Z")
just realized it wasn’t clear- “The waiter is also free to think that you are a cheap bitch who wasn’t content with getting a free entree…you’re a cheap bitch who wants to get out of tipping, too. This is why waiters hate coupons so much; they bring in this type of person in droves.” was NOT from **OxyMoron** ’s post, but someone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/345 "2002-12-27T18:37:20Z")
And you are are complaining that the **servers** want it both ways. The fact that you state over and over again what generous tippers you all are means nothing when it’s following arguments for _not_ tipping. You are asking why you should tip. We are telling you why. You are arguing about it. Searching for hypothetical loopholes and then crying foul when someone calls you cheap. I can play that little game too. Lemme see, you know, there are more black people in prision than any other race. Black people are criminals. But see, you can’t call me a racist, because I have black friends. You see what I did there? I made a statement that would come from a _racist_ person, but now \*\*you can’t call me racist \*\* because I threw in that little disclaimer about having black friends. See how stupid that is? That’s what you all are doing. You’re _attempting_ to make a case for a hypothetically cheap person (trying your damdest to argue against tipping 15%) then acting all offended when anyone calls _you_ cheap because you threw in a little disclaimer about how _you’re_ a generous tipper. And to top it off, you’re trying to make that the crux of your argument. It boils down to this: people who spend this much time arguing against tipping are _acting_ cheap. Period. Does this cushion your fragile little ego’s? The _act_ of trying to get out of tipping an extra buck or two is _cheap_. Claim to be the most generous tippers in the free world, \*your actions on this thread are cheap \*. And **World Eater** , no one answered your question about management because it’s almost too stupid to bother answering. Of _course_management would rather have a greater deal of bad tippers than a few good tippers. \*They are not working for tips \*. What kind of a lameass question is that anyway? They care about how much money the _resteraunt_ makes. They are not getting the server’s tips. What was even the _point_ of that question? What does it have to do with anything? Oh, and please cease from calling them “our owners”. We are not a bunch of dogs here. They are the _resteraunt_ owners. Since you are are insisting on such clarity and literalism, I figured I’d point that out. I know it was implied, but since _some_ people are having a little bit of a problem with implied situations, I thought I’d be **real** clear. :rolleyes: And **Sauron** , That last quote is actually mine. And I’ll say it yet _again_ for you, **yes, it is logical to assume you will be getting a 15% tip _if the service is adequate_**. Is that better? Because obviously I wasn’t clear enough for you. Even though I stated after the fact numerous times that it was applicable in situations where the service was adequate. Same goes for the rest of those quotes. You are taking quotes out of context and trying to use them to further your argument. A desperate act from someone who is obviously losing the argument. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/346 "2002-12-27T18:47:10Z")
And the sense of “entitlement” is for situations where the service was adequate. Again, I repeat, for those of you who are _just not getting it_, **the sense of entitlement is for situations where the service was adequate.** Yes, I feel that if I gave a table good service, I should get a 15% tip. Because that is standard. \*\*Anyone who is sophisicated enough to leave the confines of their home knows that 15% is a standard, acceptable tip. \*\* Anyone who doesn’t know this has either not been in this country long, or has been living under a rock and needs to brush up on their social ettiqute before they go out in public. Therefore, \*\*when the service is adequate \*\* (that was for you **Sauron** ) I feel as though I should get a 15% tip. Because that is how it is in our society. What do you people want? Do you want the server to drop on their knees and praise you for that 15% tip you so generously gave? A 15% tip is so standard that a servers pay is adjusted to reflect it. So how are they not supposed to expect it, \*\*if the service is adequate \*\*? Jesus. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/347 "2002-12-27T18:52:37Z")
Okay, **lezlers** , that’s it. Point me to a post I made in this thread that states “I don’t like to tip.” Point me to a post I made in this thread that states “I’m trying to get out of tipping.” Point me to a post I made in this thread that states “I’m hoping to avoid increasing my tip.” You **can’t do it**. I’m sick of this shit. You accuse me of not reading “implied meaning” into quotes. You’re **deliberately misconstruing what I’m saying**. I know you’re not stupid, so you must have an ulterior motive for doing this. I have reiterated my tipping stance in this thread, several times, because posters like you and **Audrey Levins** keep insisting or insinuating I’m some sort of tightwad for asking that the freaking tip be **earned** , rather than freely given. I will gladly retract your quote from the list I provided earlier. Now, give me proper context for quotes like “… you’re still a jerk if you don’t tip. Just grit your teeth, quit whining about it, and tip.” Because I’d love to see the context that completely reverses the meaning of that statement. **YOU** are missing my point. I have **NO FREAKING PROBLEM** with tipping 15, 20, or even 30 percent when _the service is adequate_. Sometimes I’ll go higher than that, if the service is very good. So **STOP TELLING ME I’M NOT SAYING THAT.** ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/348 "2002-12-27T19:14:37Z")
[quote] Anyone who is sophisicated enough to leave the confines of their home knows that 15% is a standard, acceptable tip. [quote] Apparently except when you have a coupon. Which was my whole issue. > [@](#): > > The fact that you state over and over again what generous tippers you all are means nothing when it’s following arguments for not tipping. You are asking why you should tip. We are telling you why. You are arguing about it. Searching for hypothetical loopholes and then crying foul when someone calls you cheap. I haven’t seen anyone argue for not tipping ( while we have this system. I have seen arguments for abolishing the whole system and paying servers a decent wage). I haven’t even said I _should_ tip on the pre-discount price. I only asked for a justification for why the guidelines aren’t consistent, causing the expectation that tips will based on the bill in some circumstances and on other factors in others. and for people who don’t follow these guidelines (perhaps because they never heard of them ) to be called cheap. ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/349 "2002-12-27T19:21:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Audrey Levins \* > The guidelines imposed by the TABC are so strict that if they were strictly enforced, there would be no bars in Texas. Seriously. > > A.) If you order a third drink/beer/glass of wine within the space of one hour, according to TABC, I am not allowed to serve you one b/c you would be legally drunk after two. > > B.) I am not allowed to serve anyone who is remotely intoxicated, in any way. So if you’ve had a double gin and tonic, I am not legally allowed to serve you for an hour…which is the estimated time it takes for the body to metabolize one drink. > (snip) I tended bar for four long years in Montana, not too long ago. The differences from what I experienced and what you describe tending bar in Texas are staggering. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/350 "2002-12-27T19:26:34Z")
Your major beef is with servers feeling entitled to a tip, yes? My post directly above yours addresses that. Most of the “cheap” comments were directed to **WorldEater, Doreen** and **Bad News Baboon.** My beef with your stance is that you keep repeating time and time again that you shouldn’t have to tip 15% if the service isn’t adequate, _when no one is saying that you should._ I’ll provide specific posts if you like. I’m simply reiterating that no one has said that you should. People are agreeing with you over and over again, then you are coming back with the same argument, that you shouldn’t have to tip if the service isn’t adequate. But we’re _agreeing_ with that, see? But you’re insisting that we’re _not_. I know you’re frustrated, I am too! Then you’re coming back _again_ saying “but…but…but I shouldn’t have to tip if the service isn’t adequate!! Why do you keep telling me I have to?!” \*\* No one is telling you that you have to!\*\* Why are you insisting that they are? We’re saying that you should tip 15% if the service is adequate. _I know you have no problem with tipping 15% if the service is adequate!_ My problem lies with _you_ telling _me_ that I shouldn’t feel entitled to 15% when I give you adequate service. So are you saying that you wouldn’t have a problem tipping me 15% for good service as long as I don’t feel that I deserve it? Or should get it? Because that’s how it’s coming across. And that seems like a pretty fucked up attitude. Your argument about tipping entitlement, and god forbid a server should _expect_ a tip, is making you seem like a power hungry jerk that treats serv_ers_ like serv_ants_. I don’t think that’s the kind of person you are, but that’s how your stance is apprearing, at least to me. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/351 "2002-12-27T19:41:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doreen \* > \*\*I haven’t seen anyone argue for not tipping ( while we have this system. I have seen arguments for abolishing the whole system and paying servers a decent wage). I haven’t even said I _should_ tip on the pre-discount price. There have been many arguments for tipping on a discounted price, or not tipping for more expensive items. Which all belong in the “no tipping” family. > [@](#): > > I only asked for a justification for why the guidelines aren’t consistent, causing the expectation that tips will based on the bill in some circumstances and on other factors in others. and for people who don’t follow these guidelines (perhaps because they never heard of them ) to be called cheap. \*\* More like looking for loopholes. You are supposed to tip 15% of the _meal price_. Not the ticket price _after the discount_ but the \*\*\*meal price \*\*\*. The price that is on the menu. The price of the entrees. It’s not inconsistant! There are no “other factors”. Tipping is not some big conspiracy created by greedy servers looking to take advantage of innocent customers. Servers are not in the secret server hidout cackling madly while counting their piles of cash fondly reminicing about all of the angelic customers they fucked over that shift with their ill contrived coupon sceme. \*\*You figure your tip based on the meal price. \*\* The server is not giving you a discount, the resteraunt is. The server is serving you a $100 meal. You tip on a $100 meal, not a $50 meal. If you choose to order the lobster that costs $20 more than the burger, and your meal now costs $40 instead of $20, _you tip on the $40 meal_ because _you ordered a $40 mealp_. Gah! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/352 "2002-12-27T19:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*Your major beef is with servers feeling entitled to a tip, yes? Yes. > [@](#): > > My post directly above yours addresses that. Most of the “cheap” comments were directed to **WorldEater, Doreen** and **Bad News Baboon.** Explain to me how **doreen** ’s stance in this thread can be described as “cheap.” All she’s asking is for someone, **anyone** , to give her a single universal way to calculate a 15 percent tip. So far, no one has done it. > [@](#): > > My beef with your stance is that you keep repeating time and time again that you shouldn’t have to tip 15% if the service isn’t adequate, _when no one is saying that you should._ > I’ll provide specific posts if you like. I’m simply reiterating that no one has said that you should. Sigh. I have provided several quotes (even excepting yours) that said exactly that. Hell, I quoted one in my last post. Granted, it didn’t say I should tip 15 percent. But it **did** say I should tip. It did not allow for exclusions. Here: “… you’re still a jerk if you don’t tip. Just grit your teeth, quit whining about it, and tip.” If I feel the service wasn’t up to snuff, I have no recourse – I have to tip, or I’m a jerk. Doesn’t matter if I never even got my food. I have to tip. Does that make it clearer why I’m so exasperated? Don’t tell me “no one is saying you have to tip.” That freakin’ quote right there says I do. Others that I’ve posted multiple times say the same thing. Read them again. > [@](#): > > Then you’re coming back _again_ saying “but…but…but I shouldn’t have to tip if the service isn’t adequate!! Why do you keep telling me I have to?!” \*\* No one is telling you that you have to!\*\* Why are you insisting that they are? Because they **are.** If you’re not seeing this, you’re completely missing the point of my last several posts. Here, let me lay the two sentences side-by-side so you can see what I’m talking about: “No one is telling you that you have to (tip if the service isn’t adequate [explanatory phrase added for clarification – _Sauron_])!” “… you’re still a jerk if you don’t tip. Just grit your teeth, quit whining about it, and tip.” Do you see the disconnect there? I think the problem occurs because you, as an ex-server, are automatically adding “if the service was adequate” after any phrase that mentions tipping. I, as a customer, am automatically asking “But what if the service wasn’t adequate?” after any phrase that mentions tipping. We’re imposing our own perception filters on the sentence. What’s bothering me is that you’re specifically adding “if the service was adequate” when you mention these posts, **when they don’t say that.** > [@](#): > > My problem lies with _you_ telling _me_ that I shouldn’t feel entitled to 15% when I give you adequate service. Please show me where I’ve said that. Show me where I’ve said anything _remotely_ similar to that. > [@](#): > > So are you saying that you wouldn’t have a problem tipping me 15% for good service as long as I don’t feel that I deserve it? Or should get it? Because that’s how it’s coming across. I have no idea what this means. On preview, I saw your reply to **doreen**. Your logic escapes me. If I’m supposed to tip on a meal’s price, and I have a coupon for 20 percent off, the meal’s price to me is $80. So I tip on $80. The price on the menu is irrelevant. The price on the final ticket is what I’m basing the tip on. What, I’m supposed to hang on to the menu throughout the course of the meal so I can refer back to it when it comes time to settle up? From my perspective (and feel free to whip out the “cheap bastard” invective once again), you and other servers in this thread are angling to get the largest possible tip, regardless of circumstance. Nothing wrong with that; it’s the Murrican way. Just don’t fault consumers for wanting to keep their overall bill as low as possible while still providing adequate recognition to the servers. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/353 "2002-12-27T20:09:58Z")
One calculates the menu price of the items before discounts and before tax. It’s really not all that tricky, especially since every bill I’ve ever seen has listed the retail price of the items, THEN taken any discounts/coupons into account, THEN figures tax. It’s really not all that tricky. I mean, if you don’t want to tip the server what custom says you should, be my guest. But let’s not pretend that it’s like trying to get a degree in particle physics to figure the tip on the pre-discount, pre-tax price. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/354 "2002-12-27T20:13:14Z")
> [@](#): > > If I’m supposed to tip on a meal’s price, and I have a coupon for 20 percent off, the meal’s price to me is $80. So I tip on $80. > > The price on the menu is irrelevant. The price on the final ticket is what I’m basing the tip on. What, I’m supposed to hang on to the menu throughout the course of the meal so I can refer back to it when it comes time to settle up. So, with that logic, if you had a gift certificate for $50 and your final bill was only $30, you’d tip the waitress $4.50? No way. Why is it so hard to comprehend why this is wrong? The standard is to tip for the amount before any coupons or certificates are deducted. I remember hating it when people had coupons or certificates. Not enough that they’re barely paying anything for the meal, they didn’t want to shell out for the tip either. Yet, they expect the server to do everything she would do if they were paying full price. Do you also order White Zinfandel and your filet butterflied and well-done? (Sorry, couldn’t resist) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/355 "2002-12-27T20:17:01Z")
Fuck, I don’t even think the jaws of life could pry your eyes open to see reality. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*The fact that you state over and over again what generous tippers you all are means nothing when it’s following arguments for _not_ tipping. \*\* Where are our arguments against not tipping? \*\* > [@](#): > > I can play that little game too. Lemme see, you know, there are more black people in prision than any other race. Black people are criminals. But see, you can’t call me a racist, because I have black friends. \*\* Actually it’s untrue that all snowflakes are unique, or, _what the fuck_ does that have to do with anything? \*\* > [@](#): > > You see what I did there? I made a statement that would come from a _racist_ person, but now \*\*you can’t call me racist \*\* because I threw in that little disclaimer about having black friends. See how stupid that is? \*\* Yes your statement is stupid, but again, _what the fuck_ does that have to do with anything? \*\* > [@](#): > > That’s what you all are doing. You’re _attempting_ to make a case for a hypothetically cheap person (trying your damdest to argue against tipping 15%) then acting all offended when anyone calls _you_ cheap because you threw in a little disclaimer about how _you’re_ a generous tipper. And to top it off, you’re trying to make that the crux of your argument. \*\* Perhaps the new crux of my argument will be your inability to grasp the obvious. One last time in bold caps… **I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TIPPING, IT DOESN’T TAKE MORE THEN DECENT SERVICE TO GET A GENEROUS TIP FROM ME. I DON’T LIKE THAT YOU EXPECT 15% FOR WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE “ADEQUATE SERVICE”, BECAUSE IT’S FOR ME TO DECIDE. THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OUR INTERPRETATIONS OF “ADEQUATE SERVICE” MAY VARY, SO YOU MAY CONSIDER SOMEONE A CHEAPSKATE WHEN IT IS YOU WHO DIDN’T DO A PROPER JOB. YOUR ATTITUDE IS THAT IF SOMEONE DIDN’T LEAVE A TIP OVER 15% THEY ARE CHEAP. DO YOU CARE ABOUT THE REASONS? DID IT DAWN ON YOU THAT THERE COULD BE OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED? TIPPING IS NECCESSARY, THATS NOT THE ISSUE, JUST LOSE THE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT AND WE ARE FINE.** \*\* > [@](#): > > It boils down to this: people who spend this much time arguing against tipping are _acting_ cheap. Period. \*\* \ Where are we arguing against tipping again? \*\* > [@](#): > > The _act_ of trying to get out of tipping an extra buck or two is _cheap_. \*\* If you didn’t get the “buck or two”, it’s because you didn’t deserve it. Why didn’t you deserve it you might ask? Because in MY OPINION _you didn’t do your job adequately_ \*\* > [@](#): > > Claim to be the most generous tippers in the free world, \*your actions on this thread are cheap \*. \*\* The only cheap thing in this thread is your reading comprehension, which I could buy at Kmart for 99 cents. \*\* > [@](#): > > And **World Eater** , no one answered your question about management because it’s almost too stupid to bother answering. Of _course_management would rather have a greater deal of bad tippers than a few good tippers. \*They are not working for tips \*. What kind of a lameass question is that anyway? They care about how much money the _resteraunt_ makes. They are not getting the server’s tips. What was even the _point_ of that question? What does it have to do with anything? \*\* Because it completely contradicts that bone headed “don’t go out if you’re not going to tip” argument. Lets see nobody goes out, restaurant does poorly, people get laid off. Actually it makes perfect sense, you’ll get laid off and shut the hell up, because you won’t have a job to complain about. Think I’ll be staying in tonight. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/356 "2002-12-27T20:21:59Z")
> [@](#): > > There have been many arguments for tipping on a discounted price, or not tipping for more expensive items. Which all belong in the “no tipping” family. Please point out one unqualified argument for tipping at the discounted price or not tipping more for more expensive items. I only said that IF I’m supposed to tip based on the menu price if I have a coupon, AND the justification is that the server does the same amount of work as if I didn’t have a coupon THEN it makes no sense for me to tip more for a more expensive meal that requires no extra work. If I should tip on the undiscounted price because it’s only a couple of dollars that the server needs more than I do, that’s an entirely different issue than saying someone who doesn’t is cheap. > [@](#): > > The server is not giving you a discount, the resteraunt is. Then perhaps since the server is charging a fee, he/she ought to give me a list of fees, so that i can know the fee in advance. And report every dime to the IRS. Oh right, it’s a “gratuity” ( Merriam-Webster online “something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service” ), or a “tip” ( “a gift or a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated”), not a “fee” (“a sum paid or charged for a service”). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/357 "2002-12-27T20:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > So, with that logic, if you had a gift certificate for $50 and your final bill was only $30, you’d tip the waitress $4.50? No way. Why is it so hard to comprehend why this is wrong? The standard is to tip for the amount before any coupons or certificates are deducted. In that case the final bill would be $80 (and $80 would have been paid- $50 by the person who bought the certificate and $30 by the customer) . Everywhere I’ve used a gift certificate, it’s treated as a form of payment (as it should be,since the restaurant did receive that money) not as a discount . No different than splitting a bill between a credit card and cash. ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/358 "2002-12-27T20:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Wouldn’t it be neat if the reason was that we are all nice people, who understand what you’re talking about. Perhaps we tip well for even decent service, because we are well aware of the peanuts you make? Now at the same time can I still be disgusted by your bitching and sense of entitlement? Could I even humbly suggest that you get the hell off your lousy goddamn ass and find a fucking job where your ability to pay a $30 electric bill is not compromised because someone stiffed you out of 50 cents? > > I personally think everyone should have to serve in the military at some point in their lives. It changes your perspective a lot. I’ve worked as a bomb loader, warhead tester and parking valet in Israel during my high school and college years and I think that it really gave me an appreciation for the job and for what freedom stands for. Actually lets keep this out of fantasy world shall we? > \*\* Aaah what a polite reply. First of all, nowhere in my post did I mention anything about being entitled to anything. I think you’re showing your true colors here. The fact that you have spent so much time arguing about leaving a tip presents you as a cheapass. Sorry, it’s true. Let’s add the fact that you seem to think that waiting tables is a job that anyone can leave and find a “real” job. Look closely at the waitstaff on your next meal out. Do they look like creer waiters, or more like a collection of high school and college kids, single moms and retired people who need a local job with flexible hours? Get off your arrogant high pony and realize that it’s not a final career choice for most people. Merely a way of making ends meet. It can be an enjoyable job. An evening is usually ruined by having an asshole that you have to kowtow to who will evidently never be pleased who then stiffs ou on the tip. Working for tips helps to understand this. As far as the complete inability to understand the tipping etiquette with regards to a coupon. It’s etiquette. Get your food cheaply by all means but be aware that your server will not appreciate a 20% reduced tip. It’s considered cheap. Let’s see what google says: [http://msms.essortment.com/propertippinge\_rmuv.htm](http://msms.essortment.com/propertippinge_rmuv.htm) not exactly a super source but it’s the first one that came up. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/359 "2002-12-27T21:01:49Z")
Hold on to your hats, people, that HORRIBLE AND EVIL source that **Keithnmick** linked to says that _gasp_ you’re supposed to tip on the bill BEFORE any discounts or coupons are taken into account… That must mean that Google was probably a waiter back in the day who’s just arguing for the most money…that damn Google, how dare he feel entitled to that whole tip on a reduced ticket! Geez, who does he think he is? Seriously, people. Swallow it. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/360 "2002-12-27T21:01:57Z")
Just discovered an interesting site: [www.tipping.org](http://www.tipping.org). This site isn’t necessarily the end-all be-all of tipping information, but it does have some good stuff. I don’t see anything on the site regarding tipping when a twofer deal is offered. However, I have checked other sites that indicate the tip on a meal such as that should be based on what the meal’s cost _would_ have been. I freely admit I was ignorant of this apparently widespread custom, and (without casting any aspersions, I hope) I was reluctant to take the word of (a) server(s) who insinuated I was “cheap” for questioning this practice. If I may, though, I think some quotes from the [tipping.org](http://tipping.org) site are relevant here: "My opinion is: tip your waiter / waitress. But this is not to say that it should be ever considered ‘required’. Recently, most wait staff have lost sight of the fact that a tip is a gratuity and NOT a must … The Tip calculation should be based on the PRE-TAX ammount (sic). Also, tips involving liquor should follow the following guidelines: If one bottle of wine was ordered, then it is usually okay to include it’s (sic) cost into the tip calculation. If there is a lot of wine ordered or if the price of a single wine bottle is above $10, I think it’s (sic) cost should NOT be included in the final tip calculation." I have no idea with what authority the person who hosts that site speaks. But it’s interesting that his advice regarding wine goes directly against what was mentioned earlier by some in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=19)