# Don't let your kids pay for the delivery pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384 "2002-12-22T14:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/381 "2002-12-28T12:52:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Doreen, who gets to decide what’s standard then? If servers get no say in tipping practices then who’s decision is it? > It seems to be that you are refusing to accept what is standard on ettiqute sites because you don’t like it. Only one site mentioned discounts, and the rest said to tip a percentage of the BILL, not of the meal price. And they used the word BILL, not meal price, not menu price. > [@](#): > > Doreen, who gets to decide what’s standard then? If servers get no say in tipping practices then who’s decision is it? The customers as a group.Remember the part about tips are voluntary and not mandatory? If most customers tip on the discounted price (which seemed to be a problem at least some servers complained about) then that’s the standard.practice. If 90% of servers decided tomorrow that they wanted a 50% tip, that wouldn’t make it standard practice. If 90% of customers started giving 50% tips, it would become the standard practice. See the difference? The standard is not what you want, it’s what actually happens, and servers have no say in that. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/382 "2002-12-28T18:51:01Z")
I don’t tip, point. And if I go to a place and I feel I got bad service/food, I will make sure to complain with the manager and write it in the book if they have one, and let him know why and also let him know that it is the last time I visited his place and everyone I know will also know to avoid the place. From experience, I’ve seen some curious faces on some managers. It’s rare I complain though, I’m not a demanding person and I’m also patient. I work as well, I also do Customer service and for the job I am doing I don’t get tips but that doesn’t stop me from trying to give the best service to the customers. You work as a waiter you have a job to do and you are paid for it. If what your employer pays you is not enough then go find another job. I had to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/383 "2002-12-28T18:56:09Z")
When is everyone going to start talking about pizza again? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/384 "2002-12-28T19:04:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Heloise \* > \*\*When is everyone going to start talking about pizza again? 😃 \*\* When you stop hijacking this thread, that’s when! ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/385 "2002-12-28T19:38:19Z")
If the hijacks end, the terrorists wil have won, and nobody will get any tips then. ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingRiddles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SwimmingRiddles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingRiddles)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/386 "2002-12-28T20:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HammerJoe \* > \*\*I don’t tip, point. > > And if I go to a place and I feel I got bad service/food, I will make sure to complain with the manager and write it in the book if they have one, and let him know why and also let him know that it is the last time I visited his place and everyone I know will also know to avoid the place.\*\* You don’t tip, and you think that a threat of you NOT returning is somehow negative? Servers and managers everywhere are thanking you for staying home. :rolleyes: And, as already stated, if you don’t tip at all on a regular basis, AND return back to the same place (that has LUCKILY survived your standards) I can promise that eventually (best case senerio) your server will cease to give a rat’s ass if you get your food hot or if you die of thirst or (worst case senerio) your food will be served with an unordered side order of some thing gross. I’m not saying these practices are morally correct, I’m saying they’re industry standard. As is tipping. And WHY should you tip at all? You get paid more than minimum wage at your job. I do not at mine. Therefore, it is your responcibility, given that the service was good, to tip me so that I can make minimum wage. Try reading the thread before you post to it, :wally Please let me know if you’re ever going to be in my area so I can be sure to take the night off of any and all restaurants I happen to be working at. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/387 "2002-12-28T20:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SwimmingRiddles \* > \*\*You don’t tip, and you think that a threat of you NOT returning is somehow negative? Servers and managers everywhere are thanking you for staying home. :rolleyes: But believe me, managers do give a rats ass about my comments. And it is not a threat, it’s a comaplaint. And yes it has repercussions on the waiter. You see managers and restaurant owners are there to make money and if people complain they will fix it. > [@](#): > > And, as already stated, if you don’t tip at all on a regular basis, AND return back to the same place (that has LUCKILY survived your standards) I can promise that eventually (best case senerio) your server will cease to give a rat’s ass if you get your food hot or if you die of thirst or (worst case senerio) your food will be served with an unordered side order of some thing gross. I’m not saying these practices are morally correct, I’m saying they’re industry standard. As is tipping. That happens and I will put a complaint, and if by any chance I return and still get that kind of service again I will make sure the consumer bureau will have a complaint of the place. > [@](#): > > And WHY should you tip at all? You get paid more than minimum wage at your job. I do not at mine. Therefore, it is your responcibility, given that the service was good, to tip me so that I can make minimum wage. Try reading the thread before you post to it, :wally > > Please let me know if you’re ever going to be in my area so I can be sure to take the night off of any and all restaurants I happen to be working at. And it is my fault that you decided to take a job that doesn’t pay the minimum wage?? Sorry.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/388 "2002-12-28T21:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithnmick \* > \*\*Waiting tables is not the same as any other job. It’s a job that you can hold and go to school/work another job/look after the baby in the day while your SO is at work…etc that is local and doesn’t require a degree. \*\* Hmmmm, that sounds the same as web design, graphic design, working in a record store, being a nighttime security guard, a taxi driver, a recording engineer, being a bouncer, shall I continue? \*\* > [@](#): > > Especially when I have displayed no sense of entitlement whatsoever. \*\* You haven’t in particular, but **Alice\_in\_wonderland** certainly has \*\* > [@](#): > > For the record, I don’t work in a restaurant, and I haven’t for a long time. I think that it’s a tough job, tougher than what I do for a living these days, certainly, but I don’t tip out of pity. I tip well because I know how it can be a big deal to the server, and I was them once. \*\* I’ll agree it’s a tough job, and I don’t tip out of pity either, because if that was the case, I’d tip people in professions where it’s not required. I tip, because it’s the norm. \*\* > [@](#): > > Bitching about the “sense of entitlement” that I haven’t seen displayed by the majority of posters and that I rarely see when I eat out just looks cheap and bitter. You’re coming off that way to the majority of the people reading this.\*\* It seems like there’s a sense of entitlement to me, perhaps you don’t see it, or I’ve misinterpreted it. As far as seeing it when I go out, people usually don’t make that clear to me, or would be best to hide it, as it would piss me off. \*\* > [@](#): > > I fully agree with you that sub par service does not merit 15%. \*\* And does the server realize it’s sub par? Because if they don’t I’m a cheapskate, and would be wise to avoid that establishment in the future. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > > * * * > > Ahhh **WorldEater** > > You’re a real peach, aren’t ya? :rolleyes: > I was showing **Sauron** the construct of his argument. I used an example he could relate to. I’m sorry if I deviated to far from the subject at hand, I didn’t know you had so many problems with your attention span. \*\* It’s not my attention span as my participation in this thread would reinforce that, it was totally pointless. \*\* > [@](#): > > Ah, I see what the problem here is. You have power issues. And no need to get hysterical, no one’s gonna steal your lollypop away. No need to yell. So what, pray tell, is your idea of adequate service? What will it take to be deemed worthy of your esteemed 15%? What does one have to do to recieve the honor of your bestowment? \*\* Nope, no power issues. I’m not going to get into my definition of adequate service, I’ll just say this. 99% of the time I eat out, I leave a generous tip. If I don’t leave a tip because I received shitty service, I risk being labeled a cheapskate, and effectively ban myself from the establishment. Now is the server going to say, “hmmmm I need to do a better job, this guy wasn’t happy with my level of service”? Somehow I doubt it. Needless to say I think thats unfair. Perhaps you should take issue with people who have unreasonable expectations for service, and use a tip as leverage for them. I’ll join you on that one. \*\* > [@](#): > > Honestly, you sound like a mad little kid who’s throwing a temper tantrum because Mommy won’t let him decide what color sweater he’s gonna wear. **IT’S FOR ME TO DECIDE!** \*\* I don’t know what to say, you’re wrong. \*\* > [@](#): > > There are guidelines for “adequate service” It’s probably made up by the same mysterious society that **doreen** says the tipping rules are made up by, since they couldn’t possibly come from the resteraunt industry. Greet a table w/in 2 minutes of being seated. Take drink order. Get drinks out in a timely fashion (couple of minutes) take entree order, deliver entree, check back w/in two minutes to make sure everythings okay, get refills, clear dishes, offer desert, drop check. \*\* Sounds about right to me. On the rare occasion this doesn’t happen, the tip left is smaller, sound fair? \*\* > [@](#): > > How much money the resteraunt makes is irrelevant. > \*\* What is relevant? How much money only you make? Here’s a simple lesson is business. If the restaurant is doing well, it’s because lots of people are eating there. More people = more possibility for tips. Good service = more people. I wonder if you (personally , because that’s all that matters) would make more money with 75 10% tippers (cheapskates) then with 50 15% tippers. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/389 "2002-12-28T22:45:45Z")
For shits and giggles, here are some snips from Emily Post’s _Etiquette_, 16th edition (1997): > [@](#): > > It wasn’t long ago that 15 percent of the bill, excluding tax, was considered a generous tip in elegant restaurants. Now the figure is moving toward 20 percent for excellent service. > > (p. 532) > > If you live in an area with a relatively high sales tax of 7.5 or 8.5 percent you have an easier way to calculate the tip: double the tax. As a rule of thumb you can use this guideline to decide to leave more, or less, than twice the sales tax for standard, good service. > > \ > > Waiting staff in buffet or smorgasbord restaurants should receive approximately 10 percent of bill. > > (p. 533) She doesn’t say what to do about discounts, though there are a shitload of rules for wine stewards, headwaiters, and the like. However, in her Good Housekeeping column ( [http://tinyurl.com/3vy1](http://tinyurl.com/3vy1) ) she says: > [@](#): > > A tip for restaurant service should be 15 to 20 percent of the total bill (based on the quality of the service you received) minus tax. So, **don’t base your tip on the discounted bill** ; you’ll be punishing the waiter for the restaurant’s efforts to get you in the door. So everybody shut up already. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/390 "2002-12-28T23:02:58Z")
20%… my oh my, soon it will be 50% and still they will look at you as a cheap bastard… This is pathetic… ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/391 "2002-12-28T23:23:03Z")
20% for excellent service though, Joe, not adequate service. Read the whole quote, not just the numbers. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t long ago that 15 percent of the bill, excluding tax, was considered a generous tip in elegant restaurants. Now the figure is moving toward 20 percent for excellent service. So, 15% used to be considered generous (now it’s considered standard) and tipping for excellent service is “moving towards” 20%. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/392 "2002-12-29T00:16:39Z")
I’ve always known that one tips on the price before discount. **Fenris** - hows bout you and I dine out (we have the same tip philosophy), and leave the rest of these folks to argue? How bout dim sum? ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/393 "2002-12-29T01:08:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HammerJoe \* > \*\*But believe me, managers do give a rats ass about my comments. > And it is not a threat, it’s a comaplaint. > And yes it has repercussions on the waiter. > You see managers and restaurant owners are there to make money and if people complain they will fix it. > > * * * Actually they really don’t. Managers were all servers once and they don’t like cheap tippers either. Managers are there to make money, and they make less money when they cater to the needs of cheap people over people who spend their money. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/394 "2002-12-29T01:21:04Z")
Although ignorance is never an excuse, is it possible some people who don’t eat out much are confused by some of these tipping schemes? I personally don’t know how much to tip on a tuesday night when it’s a full moon, and the server is on crutches. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of cheap ass people out in the world, but they aren’t the only ones. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/395 "2002-12-29T01:25:41Z")
Btw the way I ate out last night. Bill was 49, gave em 59. I thought about this thread too, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/396 "2002-12-29T02:19:16Z")
Hey, Hammerjoe, when you’re telling the story to “everyone you know” about the less than adequate service you received as a result of your habit of not tipping, are you honest? Do you say, “Hey, I never tip and I went to this restaurant and the service was shitty” and expect them to share your righteous indignation? Continuing on with this idea of truthfulness, when you are seated at a restaurant do you tell your server, “hey, I don’t tip and if you don’t like it, find a job that pays above minimum wage?” because I really think you should 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/397 "2002-12-29T02:25:43Z")
What **Hammerjoe** said was akin to being mugged by a mexican, so now he hates all mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/398 "2002-12-29T03:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > \*\*$2.00 is average. $1 is the minimum I feel is not an insult. And in the higher-income neighborhood I work in now, the average is closer to $3. > > [sub](more later)[/sub] \*\* That’s interesting. Maybe it depends on where you live. We usually round it up to the next higher dollar and then throw in another buck. Or, if the price ends in something less then .50 we round up to .50 and throw in a buck. The delivery people always seemed to be thrilled by this and are effusive in their thanks. I can remember one guy in particular gushing about how good we always treat him. Of course, if the weather’s really bad I’ll make it 2 or even 3 bucks because I feel guilty about making them come out. But a buck and change seems to be considered generous around here (outside of Philly). ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/399 "2002-12-29T05:32:37Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by World Eater \* \*\* Sounds about right to me. On the rare occasion this doesn’t happen, the tip left is smaller, sound fair? \*\* Wowza, we agree on something. And I’ll tell you this much: any server who rants and raves about your cheapness because of a crappy tip is probably lying to themselves, from how you’ve described your tipping habits to me. Usually, the only time a server is verbal about their discontent with a tip is when they _know_ they gave excellent service, no room for question. > [@](#): > > **What is relevant? How much money only you make?** Well, considering this is a thread about _tipping_ i’m gonna go with yes on this one. Of course we’re only talking about tipping, that’s what this thread is about. If we were going to bring resterant management and owners into this, and how much **they’re** making, then that can of worms would be open. It’s not. Because it has nothing to do with tipping. Which is the subject of this thread. Got it? > [@](#): > > \*\*Here’s a simple lesson is business. If the restaurant is doing well, it’s because lots of people are eating there. > > More people = more possibility for tips. > Good service = more people. > > I wonder if you (personally , because that’s all that matters) would make more money with 75 10% tippers (cheapskates) then with 50 15% tippers. \*\* Wow, thanks for the lesson. Now I’m going to give you a little lesson in waiting tables. 15% tips are better. Period. I’m gonna have to work harder to get the same amount of money if it comes from 75 10% tippers than 50 15% tippers. I’m waiting on more people for the same amount of money at the end of the night. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/400 "2002-12-29T05:33:43Z")
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