# Don't let your kids pay for the delivery pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384 "2002-12-22T14:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/41 "2002-12-22T20:50:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furryman \* > \*\*Do pizza delivery people get paid less now than in the '80’s? I never got a single tip the entire time I worked as a pizza delivery guy. So consider yourself lucky that I always give you a $1 tip. \*\* They do get payed less now. Most pizza joints have “dropped” the delivery fee. Of course they didn’t actually reduce their prices, but they now pay delivery guys as tipped workers- who they can get away with paying below minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/42 "2002-12-22T20:58:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by XJETGIRLX \* > \*\*And waste precious gas that you might not be able to afford to use? What if they don’t own a car? \*\* Honestly, if factoring in an additional $2 or $3 as a tip (and you can’t afford the gas money to get it yourself) when ordering a $15 pizza is going to financially ruin you, you’re really better off spending that money on groceries that will go a lot further than one meal. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/43 "2002-12-22T21:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LolaCocaCola \* > \*\*Honestly, if factoring in an additional $2 or $3 as a tip (and you can’t afford the gas money to get it yourself) when ordering a $15 pizza is going to financially ruin you, you’re really better off spending that money on groceries that will go a lot further than one meal. \*\* I’m with you there, but I’d prefer that it be factored into the price of the product/service. I see the extra $2 or $3 as a service fee for the convenience of having it delivered, and the costs associated with providing home delivery, not as a reward for an employee doing his/her job the way they’re supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Antimanics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/71c47a/32.png) [@Antimanics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antimanics)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/44 "2002-12-22T21:28:15Z")
If you’re upset that tips are taken into account for your salary and people aren’t tipping you enough, maybe you should quit. There are other jobs to be had. I’m not going to “reward” someone with a tip for simply doing his or her job. Nuts to that. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/45 "2002-12-22T21:37:46Z")
Then enjoy a life of cold pizza and shitty service in resteraunts (assuming you patronize a place more than once). ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/46 "2002-12-22T22:07:13Z")
At the restaurant where I work as a waiter, we have to tip out the bar/bus/host staff figured as a percentage of what we sell. If I get stiffed by a table, especially on a slightly larger order, I actually LOSE money for having waited on them. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/47 "2002-12-22T22:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cessandra \* > \*\*I hate the whole tipping system. I hate it! A situation that happens to me a lot because we suck at planning: just before payday, and I am home alone with the kids at dinnertime. Husband has the car at work. And I realize there is nothing to make for dinner. But I have $10. So I order a small pizza ($6), and the pizza guy gives me a dirty look for only tipping him $2 and keeping my last $2 to buy me and the kids drinks at the soda machine. > > Just fucking raise the prices enough to pay your employees what they deserve so I don’t have to figure out how much your stupid delivery guy expects to get for giving me the food I paid for! \*\* The guy had no reason for giving you a dirty look for tipping 33%. The problem with giving drivers higher rates is that it would really throw off the business, maybe so much that it would cease to exist. E.g., I make $4.25/hr wage, get about $7.50/hr in tips (3 deliveries \* $2.50 tip/delivery), and maybe $2.00/hr in vehicle compensation. That’s a total of $13.75/hr gross, and about $12.50/hr net. To pay someone full wages for that net amount, that’d be about $18.75/hr (or about $39,000/yr full time salaried). To pay the drivers more would raise the average price per order almost $5.00. People would balk quite a bit to pay $14 for a 12" pizza, plain. But in the 13 years I’ve delivered, the price of a 12" has only gone up from $7 to $9. Some stores are debating adding a delivery charge that would go to the driver. But I think that’d either deter customers from ordering, or make them deduct that from what they would’ve tipped otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/48 "2002-12-22T22:24:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > \*\*Just out of curiosity, has anyone had worse experiences with tippers in rural areas than in suburban or urban areas? I’ve never worked as a server, but I feel almost obligated to leave a few extra dollars as a tip when I’m dining with friends from rural areas than from suburban or urban areas, because it’s been much more common that rural people will leave a tip under 15% (merited if the service is truly awful, but I’ve only seen service awful enough to leave something under 15% a time or two in my life). To be fair, it’s most assuredly not always like that, and that might just be one of my unfair stereotypes, but I’m pretty curious about this – I wonder if waitstaff and delivery persons in rural areas get and/or expect lower tips on average? \*\* My father-in-law, dear man that he is, is a bad tipper. He usually tips $1 per person that was at the table. This is probably standard for the small diner he goes to down the highway where he lives. But a $5 tip at Outback on a $100 bill is a bit of an insult. Whenever he insists on paying, I try to see what he tipped and secretly tip the server more to make up for it. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/49 "2002-12-22T22:31:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furryman \* > \*\*Do pizza delivery people get paid less now than in the '80’s? I never got a single tip the entire time I worked as a pizza delivery guy. So consider yourself lucky that I always give you a $1 tip. \*\* We only get $4.25/hr, $1.10 less than minimum. When I first started, we were paid $4.50 when minimum was $3.35. We were told that our tips were legally gifts and didn’t have to be reported. Now we are considered tipped employees, are paid less than minimum, and have to report our tips to the Infernal Revenue Service. (But do you honestly think we tell them the real amount!?) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/50 "2002-12-22T22:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Francesca \* > \*\*I beg your pardon? People who have to save up to order pizza as a treat (and believe me, I have) shouldn’t have it if they can’t afford the tip as well? Fuck you. \*\* No, fuck you. If you’re so broke that pizza is a treat, you’re far better off taking the $8.00 down to the grocery store where you can buy enough food to feed you for a few days than stiffing a hardworking person who earns less than minimum wage out of his tip. Your attitude is particularly selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Krispy\_Original](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/51 "2002-12-22T22:49:21Z")
I hear anecdotes from time to time of wait staff making “$100” or “$150” or even “$200” on a “good night” in tips… …are those stories true…or an exaggeration?..or maybe just representative of the best night they ever had? If it’s true, then I’m thinking “damm!”…there are lots of non-tipping jobs in these parts that pay merely $8-12 per hour, including factory jobs. If the tip wages are realistic, then why would anyone work in a factory for $10 per hour when they could wait tables and make $150 in 5 hours (not all of which is reported and taxed) on top of the hourly wage? What is the true about the earning potential of wait staff?..how about delivery drivers? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/52 "2002-12-22T22:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Tipping… I just don’t get it. What is so wrong with expecting the delivery guy’s employer to pay him a decent wage? Why risk making your customer feel awkward and/or screwed? This is just one of those things that is because it is. It’s different in America, and that’s just the way it is. You drive on the left, we drive on the right. We directly elect our most powerful government official, you don’t. (Right?) I think this comes from America’s attitude of having a relatively hands-off policy toward business. The businesses then try to minimize having to pay their part of the taxes on the wages, and make it the employee’s sole responsibility (well, for employees who have direct interaction with the customers, in certain industries). OTOH, it’s fairly common in the more expensive restaurants to just add the tip to the bill, period. This lets them get out of the employer taxes, and makes sure they can get enthusiastic help that doesn’t get irritated and quit. It also lets them make the food look cheaper on the menu. ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/53 "2002-12-22T23:05:16Z")
> [@](#): > > No, fuck you. If you’re so broke that pizza is a treat, you’re far better off taking the $8.00 down to the grocery store where you can buy enough food to feed you for a few days than stiffing a hardworking person who earns less than minimum wage out of his tip. Your attitude is particularly selfish. I see your point, but my point was that it’s a _treat_. Even poor people are allowed a treat every now and then. I saved that money above and beyond my grocery and bills money specifically so I could afford to treat myself. As it happens, I live in a country where delivery staff don’t have to reply on tips. Perhaps I would think again if I lived in the US. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/54 "2002-12-22T23:10:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Francesca wrote:_ > I don’t drive and the store is too far away to walk in the dark. And the point is, it was a treat for me to order the pizza, a treat I saved up for. So save up a little longer, so you can afford to pay for the tip as well. Honestly, I don’t understand what the problem is here. If you are saving up for a “treat”, do it right so you don’t stiff the delivery person in the process. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/55 "2002-12-22T23:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*So save up a little longer, so you can afford to pay for the tip as well. Honestly, I don’t understand what the problem is here. If you are saving up for a “treat”, do it right so you don’t stiff the delivery person in the process. \*\* I think that cultural differences are becoming apparent in this thread. Here, a tip is an expression of appreciation for above average service, not something an employee has a right to expect for simply doing their job. I’m curious whether those people who feel that the pizza delivery person SHOULD be tipped (after all, that person is being paid by the company to deliver your pizza) would tip the person who served them if they’d driven to the store to buy their pizza. Why is the delivery person any more deserving of a tip than the person who serves you over the counter at McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Dominoes, your local Chinese restaurant, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Krispy\_Original](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/56 "2002-12-22T23:26:04Z")
Every time someone brings up the subject of tipping I can’t help but think of the opening scene of Resevoir Dogs. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/57 "2002-12-22T23:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*I think that cultural differences are becoming apparent in this thread. > > Here, a tip is an expression of appreciation for above average service, not something an employee has a right to expect for simply doing their job. I’m curious whether those people who feel that the pizza delivery person SHOULD be tipped (after all, that person is being paid by the company to deliver your pizza) would tip the person who served them if they’d driven to the store to buy their pizza. Why is the delivery person any more deserving of a tip than the person who serves you over the counter at McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Dominoes, your local Chinese restaurant, etc? \*\* The person does not “deserve” a tip - he deserves a proper wage. But as he doesn’t get one, you have to tip. In the case of pizza delivery, I just think of it as the delivery charge going direct to the deliverer. Much as I hate the system, I’m not going to stiff the deliverer because of the actions of his employer. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/58 "2002-12-22T23:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by black455 \* > \*\*In a perfect world, delivery and waitstaff would be paid a decent hourly wage and tipping would just be gravy for good service. In that case, though, your pizza would cost more due to the higher overhead for the restaurant. Do you still think you’d have been entitled to get that pizza for a couple of bucks off? \*\* Wow. I live in a perfect world? Knowing what the price of a Pizza is, including tax and delivery fee, means you don’t have to figure anything out, will not be treated any differently than any other customer, and the satisfaction that the delivery staff are getting paid a regular wage. In the end, I guarantee you that it averages to the same cost as if the pizza was a couple of bucks less, but the tip was a couple of bucks. It’s just included, and called a ‘delivery fee’. I love that, it makes sense to me, and is far more fair (and frankly legal, as nobody is being paid under minimum wage) than any arbitrary tipping situation. ---
**Author:** ![snermy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@snermy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snermy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/59 "2002-12-22T23:44:39Z")
Y’all, remember, **Francesca** is in the UK (IIRC), where they don’t pay delivery people less on the expectation of tips…But if you do leave them a tips, it may just go towards their wage instead of being (as intended) a bonus for good service. > **[Employers and the sins of wages](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2002/oct/26/workandcareers.jobsandmoney)** > > A new court ruling means that restaurant and hotel staff will wait a long time for the pay rise they were hoping for. Richard Colbey reports. And ya’ll in the US, remember even with tips, \*\*employers are still required to pay minimum wage. \*\* If you don’t make 5.15$ per hour your employer has to make up the difference. This is on a _weekly_ basis though, so just making under minimum for one shift won’t cut it. (the exceptions are listed here, your pizza guy isn’t one of them [Nolo's Legal Encyclopedia | Nolo](http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/article.cfm/objectID/244AD836-D9F5-49AE-813B0478FF97298B/catID/A6167778-4246-4156-A6277BB2DF1CE4C4)) People in tipping jobs do take them with the expectation that they’ll make better than minimum (and usual if you’re competent and friendly you do), but they are all guaranteed that they’ll make at least minimum wage. That said, just tip the guy (or girl) already! They just drove to your house putting wear and tear on their personal vehicle, and brought you a custom prepared fresh warm yummy pizza you can get without ever getting out of the bunny slippers . I’ve paid a lot more for a lot less luxury 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384/60 "2002-12-22T23:44:59Z")
reprise: I totally agree that tipping is as cultural thing. I personally would prefer to do away with tipping and just pay a flat fee that would cover everything, but alas, that’s not how it’s done. Since the culture in the US assumes that certain people in certain jobs will get a tip (and their wages are adjusted to include this assumption), I will continue to support tipping. My dad didn’t tip, as a form of “protest”. I couldn’t argue with his motivations (he would have preferred to pay a higher upfront fee like they do in other countries) but I _hated_ going to a restaurant with him if my mom couldn’t override him and tip anyway. Yikes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-let-your-kids-pay-for-the-delivery-pizza/144384.md?page=4)