# Don't row on the bottom set of oars on long trips **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947 "2010-09-25T00:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/1 "2010-09-25T00:29:54Z")
In the times when they had two, three, four, or five rows of oarsmen on the old galleys, was there any sort of potty break policy? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/2 "2010-09-25T01:37:02Z")
Well, not for slaves. The smell was legendary. For freemen like Vikings, of course, they’d just ship their oar and pee over the sides. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/3 "2010-09-25T02:29:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, not for slaves. This doesn’t smell right, for the same reason it doesn’t smell right when people seem to think slaves routinely got beaten to death: Regardless of culture, slaves are inherently valuable only when they’re healthy enough to work. This is especially true for slaves doing heavy labor. Therefore, in the absence of antibiotics, getting the most value from your slaves means keeping them clean and free of any wounds capable of festering. The only instances I can think of where people were worked to death with no care were prison camps, such as those run by the Japanese and the Germans during the Second World War. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/4 "2010-09-25T02:50:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > For freemen like Vikings, of course, they’d just ship their oar and pee over the sides. Over the leeward side, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/5 "2010-09-25T06:55:49Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Well, not for slaves. > > This doesn’t smell right, for the same reason it doesn’t smell right when people seem to think slaves routinely got beaten to death: Regardless of culture, slaves are inherently valuable only when they’re healthy enough to work. This is especially true for slaves doing heavy labor. Therefore, in the absence of antibiotics, getting the most value from your slaves means keeping them clean and free of any wounds capable of festering.. Apparently they thought they had an unlimited supply, as nearly every naval warfare book- fiction and non-fiction- mentions the horrible smell of a slave galley. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/6 "2010-09-25T07:21:45Z")
I imagine it would smell horrible having hundreds of men rowing even if the decks were so clean you could eat off of them. It isn’t like bathing among the lower classes was daily even 70 years ago. The b.o. alone would be overpowering. ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/7 "2010-09-25T07:30:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Derleth](#): > > > > This doesn’t smell right, for the same reason it doesn’t smell right when people seem to think slaves routinely got beaten to death: Regardless of culture, slaves are inherently valuable only when they’re healthy enough to work. This is especially true for slaves doing heavy labor. Therefore, in the absence of antibiotics, getting the most value from your slaves means keeping them clean and free of any wounds capable of festering.. > > Apparently they thought they had an unlimited supply, as nearly every naval warfare book- fiction and non-fiction- mentions the horrible smell of a slave galley. Are you speaking of slave galleys in particular or galleys in general? From what I understand, the ancient Greek triremes, Roman ships, Venetian galleys, all of those were rowed by freemen. I know slaves rowed for the Ottomans, and European galleys of the 18th century were rowed by convicts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/8 "2010-09-25T17:59:46Z")
> [@Kilmore](#): > > Are you speaking of slave galleys in particular or galleys in general? From what I understand, the ancient Greek triremes, Roman ships, Venetian galleys, all of those were rowed by freemen. I know slaves rowed for the Ottomans, and European galleys of the 18th century were rowed by convicts. I said _slave_ galleys. I know the Greeks used freemen, and I think the Roman-period Egyptians turned to slaves in the later years. > **[Galley slave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley_slave)** > > A galley slave was a slave rowing in a galley, either a convicted criminal sentenced to work at the oar (French: galérien), or a kind of human chattel, sometimes a prisoner of war, assigned to the duty of rowing. In the ancient Mediterranean, galley rowers were mostly free men, and slaves were used as rowers when manpower was in high demand. In the Middle Ages and the early modern period, convicts and prisoners of war often manned galleys, and the Barbary corsairs enslaved captives as galley s An... "_Galley-slaves lived in unsavoury conditions, so even though some sentences prescribed a restricted number of years, most rowers would eventually die, even if they survived the conditions, shipwreck and slaughter or torture at the hands of enemies or of pirates…C. S. Forester wrote of an encounter with Spanish galleys in ‘Mr Midshipman Hornblower’ when the becalmed British fleet is attacked off Gibraltar by galleys. The author writes of the stench emanating from these galleys due to each carrying two hundred condemned prisoners chained permanently to the rowing benches."_ Now note that the British “Tar” wasn’t exactly a model of cleanliness, and conditions were quite crowded also- we’d certainly think they stank today. So, imagine how bad the slave galleys had to be! ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-row-on-the-bottom-set-of-oars-on-long-trips/554947/9 "2010-09-25T21:59:08Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Well, not for slaves. > > This doesn’t smell right, for the same reason it doesn’t smell right when people seem to think slaves routinely got beaten to death: Regardless of culture, slaves are inherently valuable only when they’re healthy enough to work. This is especially true for slaves doing heavy labor. Therefore, in the absence of antibiotics, getting the most value from your slaves means keeping them clean and free of any wounds capable of festering. > > The only instances I can think of where people were worked to death with no care were prison camps, such as those run by the Japanese and the Germans during the Second World War. Um, what about the Romans sentencing criminals to the galleys for the purpose of working them to death (as alternative to direct execution; the alternative were harsh salt or copper mines)? I don’t know how many other navies kept that system afterwards…