# Don't say "That's awful white of you," please. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941 "2006-03-03T19:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/201 "2006-03-05T21:04:23Z")
I can’t believe that phrase is still in common usage in parts of the U.S. I haven’t heard it in 20 years. I also can’t believe that people can think that it is benign - it is obviously, _obviously_ rascist. I’d put it on a par with “jewed” as a synonym for “bargained”. I still hear that one occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/202 "2006-03-05T21:19:31Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > I can’t believe that phrase is still in common usage in parts of the U.S. > > I haven’t heard it in 20 years. > > I also can’t believe that people can think that it is benign - it is obviously, _obviously_ racist. I’d put it on a par with “jewed” as a synonym for “bargained”. I still hear that one occasionally. Out of curiosity where does the word “gypped” stand as a racist/non-racist term re Romany people? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/203 "2006-03-05T21:30:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Out of curiosity where does the word “gypped” stand as a racist/non-racist term re Romany people? Same as “jewed”, I’d say. It’s just a much smaller group (in this country, anyway) that is getting slammed. “Gypped” is a good example of a word that people don’t realize is a slur against an ethnicity. I certainly didn’t realize it until I was in my 20’s. I don’t think I’d ever seen it spelled out, and if I did, I didn’t get the connection. “Mighty white of you”, on the other hand, I can’t see how people don’t get that. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/204 "2006-03-05T21:31:26Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > I also can’t believe that people can think that it is benign - it is obviously, _obviously_ rascist. I’d put it on a par with “jewed” as a synonym for “bargained”. I still hear that one occasionally. _shrugs_ It wasn’t obvious to me, or I wouldn’t have been using it. Maybe I was being naive by not seeing it, or by not looking for a deeper meaning, but I tend to see people as decent til proven otherwise. **Saoirse** , again, I apologize if I offended you; it wasn’t intentional and I really did not see it as a racist saying. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/205 "2006-03-05T21:39:17Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > _shrugs_ It wasn’t obvious to me, or I wouldn’t have been using it. Maybe I was being naive by not seeing it, or by not looking for a deeper meaning, but I tend to see people as decent til proven otherwise. Me too; til they prove otherwise by, for example, using a racist phrase like “mighty white of you.” ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/206 "2006-03-05T21:42:58Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Me too; til they prove otherwise by, for example, using a racist phrase like “mighty white of you.” Which, as I explained, I was unaware was racist. I explained where I heard it first, I explained how it was defined to me, and I apologized. I can flay myself for your amusement if that isn’t enough for you, but I honestly don’t know what more you expect me to do. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/207 "2006-03-05T21:45:40Z")
Same here-I’ve ONLY ever heard it used sarcastically. And I appologize, however, the OP was not exactly very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/208 "2006-03-05T22:22:38Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Which, as I explained, I was unaware was racist. I explained where I heard it first, I explained how it was defined to me, and I apologized. I can flay myself for your amusement if that isn’t enough for you, but I honestly don’t know what more you expect me to do. Bingo–I’m in the same boat. And guess what–I’ve never heard the term “jewed”-or used it. Moral of the story: not everyone has the same experiences. I suspect that nothing short of a well, I was gonna say scarlett, but big white R on my chest here will do for some folks like **lissener** --I’m surer the air is rarified up on that moral high horse. **Bryan** --it was my son’s tournament. He played both white and black throughout. He won 2 and lost 2. Not bad for his first tournament, ever! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/209 "2006-03-05T23:36:26Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Bingo–I’m in the same boat. And guess what–I’ve never heard the term “jewed”-or used it. Moral of the story: not everyone has the same experiences. I suspect that nothing short of a well, I was gonna say scarlett, but big white R on my chest here will do for some folks like **lissener** --I’m surer the air is rarified up on that moral high horse. You missed my point. I acknowledged that you might very well have no racist intentions in using it. But by continuing to defend its use simply because your experience to date has left you ignorant of its widely understood racism just makes you resistant to education and a defender of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/210 "2006-03-06T05:47:14Z")
**Maureen** said that she was unaware that the phrase was racist and that she wouldn’t have used it if she had been aware. She apologized if she unintentionally offended. **eleanorigsby** , if I understand correctly, said that she was unaware that the phrase was still considered racist by some, but now that she does know, she will continue to use it even though it offends. She does not _intend_ for it to offend. Are they really in the same boat? **eleanorigsby** , thanks for further explaining your comment about “disingenuous” to me. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/211 "2006-03-06T06:15:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe **eleanorigsby** , if I understand correctly, said that she was unaware that the phrase was still considered racist by some, but now that she does know, she will continue to use it even though it offends. She does not _intend_ for it to offend. [/QUOTE] Well actually, if she knows that many people who know what the phrase actually means, despite her own ideosyncratic meaning, find it offensive, and she continues to use it then she does intend to offend. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/212 "2006-03-06T13:41:49Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Well actually, if she knows that many people who know what the phrase actually means, despite her own ideosyncratic meaning, find it offensive, and she continues to use it then she does intend to offend. But it is NOT “my own” idiosyncratic meaning. There have been any number of posters here who not only use it in it’s sardonic sense, but understand it that way as well. If it meant only one thing for me and never meant that for anyone else, of course I would stop using it–who has a special language for one? I am now bowing out of this thread–we are merely repeating ourselves to no good purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/213 "2006-03-06T15:40:38Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Me too; til they prove otherwise by, for example, using a racist phrase like “mighty white of you.” “When I say ‘mighty white’ I am not using it with any racist intent, for I am not a racist.” “Are too, otherwise you wouldn’t say ‘mighty white’!” It couldn’t get more airtight, could it? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/214 "2006-03-06T16:07:49Z")
Well, I’m getting to this argument awfully late, but (throwing in two cents)… I’d see this statement as being prejudicial and bigoted before I’d see it as racist. Just like “It’s a black thing… you wouldn’t understand,” is a prejudicial and bigoted statement. The first time I heard it, some twenty years ago, (WOW. That much time has passed?) this woman named Lisa from New Orleans said it to me after I made a big deal out of doing something I was supposed to do, like wash my own dirty dishes. I took it as a reference to how certain whites who thought treating a black person on equal terms was a big deal when from the black guy’s prespective it was something you’re supposed to do. I have used the phrase maybe three times in my life (as “mighty white”) and I always meant it as a sarcastic “thanks.” Perhaps because of its unneccessary (and these days, unfair) racial connotations I’ve never used it much. It don’t hear it much now. Someone ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/215 "2006-03-06T17:10:15Z")
A few months ago, I was at a hotel which had a large crowd in a narrow pathway. As I tried making my way past the line of people, I commented “Wow, they need to make this place wider.” At that point, a large black woman who was next to me said “Excuse me?!?” It took me a while to even register what happened. She had taken my comment to be “They need to make this place _whiter_.” By that point, I was too far nudged along to respond to her. But I couldn’t help but think…Just how fucking careful do we have to be in our efforts not to offend people? Also, this woman must not think very highly of white folks if she **automatically assumes the worst** of whatever comes out of our mouths. _That_ was the part that bothered me most of all. I get the feeling that a lot of “racist remarks” are often miscommunications. Yeah, maybe some people are ignorant clods who don’t know that they actions can be construed as racist, but just think of them as ignorant clods, not as racists. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/216 "2006-03-06T17:13:57Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I suspect you want something along the lines of a full apology from me for using the phrase, as well as a promise to not ever use it again. I can’t do that. I can’t cater to one poster’s desire’s like that. Would you? I’m not asking for any sort of concession from you. I saw something I though was wrong and I said something about it. > [@](#): > > I don’t quite understand your remarks re poster’s location etc. Could you explain? (I will understand if you are bone tired of this and decline). They were examples of ways to judge the quality of a post other than content. I mention it because I can’t help but wonder what the pit thread would have been like if the expression had first been used by, say **clothahump.** I don’t need to imagine what it would have been like if **Martin Hyde** had said it, but I do sometimes anyway. I’m not really comfortable with saying, “It’s okay from **eleanorigby** and **Maureen,** but not from you.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/217 "2006-03-06T17:29:20Z")
In my experience, the opposite of “that’s mighty white of you” is “that’s pretty red of you”? Is the “red” = “bad” usage also originate in race? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/218 "2006-03-06T17:29:20Z")
I didn’t read all the responses, mostly because I can’t believe some people don’t consider this an offensive remark. Where I come from, to say “mighty white of you” when someone does something good is to say that people of any other color aren’t capable of or generally don’t do good, right, nice things. It’s insulting and rarely heard in these parts anymore. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/219 "2006-03-06T18:33:35Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > In my experience, the opposite of “that’s mighty white of you” is “that’s pretty red of you”? Is the “red” = “bad” usage also originate in race? I have never in my life encounterd the phrase “mighty red of you,” so it would be difficult to say much about its meaning or origin. First, I would need some clarification of “opposite”: - Is it used by whites to indicate “you are acting beneath your station; I expected better of you”? - Is it used by whites to sarcastically mean “what a friend to the Earth _you_ are”? - Is it used by whites, but directed to Indian acquaintances, to mean “you are not a credit to your people”? - Is it used by Indians (directed toward white acquaintances) to mean “you’re better than most of those white folks”? - Is it used among Indians to sarcastically mean “you are acting white”? - Is it used among Indians to mean “I’m proud of you”? Is it being employed in lily-white suburban neighborhoods? Is it being used in places (Northern New York, Upper Michigan, central Montana, etc.) where there is some lingering racial friction between whites and Indians? Each possibility relies on its own set of stereotypes and prejudices, along with a need to know whether it was intended directly or sarcastically. The phrase could be something as simple as turning “mighty white of you” on its head in the context of local dialect or racial relations or it might have some totally separate origin and meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941/220 "2006-03-06T18:45:41Z")
My encounter with these phrases are from working-class rural (Appalachian and surrounding areas) whites with each other and they were used with these meanings: “That’s mighty white of you” --\> “That’s very generous of you; I’m grateful.” “That’s pretty red of you” --\> “That’s very mean or dishonest of you; I don’t approve of your behaviour.” Often they would be used ironically, sarcastically, or joshingly, meaning that they would have the opposite of the above meanings. They were all in situations in which there would be no obvious relationship to race or skin colour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-say-thats-awful-white-of-you-please/346941.md?page=12)