# Don't Steal Virtual Items **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 22, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039 "2008-10-22T12:49:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/41 "2008-10-24T16:34:30Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That’s not true rarity. Rare items in games are rare only because the rules say they are. Tomorrow the guys running the game could, if they wanted to, give everybody an ubersword, all absolutely identical to the one somebody paid $1000 real world dollars to own. Alternatively, they could decide uberswords don’t exist and delete them from the game. The same could be said for limited edition lithographs, or signed copies of a book. No one is arguing that there’s no difference between a virtual and physical object, but to argue that a virtual object had no intrinsic wealth is to ignore the definition of worth. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/42 "2008-10-24T17:50:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It’s true the stamp has little utility. It does, however, have rarity. There are only a tiny few of those stamps. They are unique. Can the same ever be said of virtual items? I’d argue that the rarity is not of any particular importance to me–from my point of view, some guy spending $100 on a knife, or $100 on a stamp, or hell $100 on a dozen movie tickets is getting roughly the same amount of actual utility as I get from a few months subscription on an MMO or that someone else might get from spending $100 on a virtual sword I sold him–that is, the actual utility of those items lies entirely in the subjective enjoyment of their use or possession by their purchaser, and not due to any intrinsic worth. So I can’t say I see the difference–one must take into account “the game designers might make this thing a dime a dozen tomorrow” when they buy a game item, but having known investment collectors they did the same thing–“what are the odds someone is sitting on a sheet or several sheets of rare stamp X that will depress the value of it if they release 'em”. By contrast, I’ve never seen a person who collects for the joy of collection care about such a thing, and I’d expect the same thing from people who’re playing a game for the joy of it. When you figure that even playing a single game less than most people watch TV would still work out to (assuming a single hour of play a day) 365 hours a year, even $1000 for a rare item amortizes out to about the same amount of fun per dollar per hour as movie tickets. Most people who’d spend that much are playing far more, of course, and that makes even an ephemeral item have a pretty sane value when compared to other ephemeral (non-physical or non-enduring) entertainments like movies or good restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/43 "2008-10-24T18:06:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That’s not true rarity. Rare items in games are rare only because the rules say they are. Tomorrow the guys running the game could, if they wanted to, give everybody an ubersword, all absolutely identical to the one somebody paid $1000 real world dollars to own. Alternatively, they could decide uberswords don’t exist and delete them from the game. > > Tomorrow, unless some are physically destroyed tonight, there will be the same number of upside down stamps and Babe Ruth baseballs. There may, due to attrition, be fewer; but there will _never_ be more. That’s rarity. But it’s not strictly the rarity of the sword that makes it valuable. It’s the utility that makes it sought after. If someone buy a Babe Ruth baseball card, it’s for one of two reasons: they really like baseball, or they’re looking to make an investment. People buying that virtual ubersword have a different motive: it gives them a competitive edge in the game environment. They aren’t paying for the rarity or sentimental value, they’re paying for the ability to be that much better at the game than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/44 "2008-10-24T18:11:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But it’s not strictly the rarity of the sword that makes it valuable. It’s the utility that makes it sought after. If someone buy a Babe Ruth baseball card, it’s for one of two reasons: they really like baseball, or they’re looking to make an investment. People buying that virtual ubersword have a different motive: it gives them a competitive edge in the game environment. They aren’t paying for the rarity or sentimental value, they’re paying for the ability to be that much better at the game than anyone else. In the case of the ubersword, I acknowledge your point. The buyer is spending real world money in order to have an advantage in game play. However, upthread there was a case of virtual furniture theft referenced. I find it hard to consider something like that anything but fools and money they couldn’t wait to be parted from. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/45 "2008-10-24T18:16:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That’s not true rarity. Rare items in games are rare only because the rules say they are. Tomorrow the guys running the game could, if they wanted to, give everybody an ubersword, all absolutely identical to the one somebody paid $1000 real world dollars to own. Alternatively, they could decide uberswords don’t exist and delete them from the game. > > Tomorrow, unless some are physically destroyed tonight, there will be the same number of upside down stamps and Babe Ruth baseballs. There may, due to attrition, be fewer; but there will _never_ be more. That’s rarity. I guess I need to make a distinction here. There are two different types of items that people spend money for. There’s the limited edition pre order the expansion get a unique item type item, and there’s uber sword +10. There will never be more limited edition pre order the expansion get a unique item type items because it would piss off the fanbase and completely undermine any future limited edition promotions. The value of these will probably go up until people get bored and leave the game. Similarly, the government could print a million upside down stamps, but wouldn’t. Sure, forensics could tell the difference between a new and old upside down stamp, but having an old upside down stamp is less obviously impressive when everyone has a new upside down stamp. Uberswords +10 on the other hand, will lose value. You better believe that the designers are currently working to introduce Ubersword +11, because you have to keep Ubersword +10 owners playing. Ubersword +10 will still probably have value to those who don’t want to pay top dollar for +11, and for those who want to use +10 to help acquire +11. What’s worse is that when +15 comes out, they will probably make +10 more common, so that more people will try to get to the bleeding edge of +14 and +15. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/46 "2008-10-24T20:03:34Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Uberswords +10 on the other hand, will lose value. You better believe that the designers are currently working to introduce Ubersword +11, because you have to keep Ubersword +10 owners playing. Ubersword +10 will still probably have value to those who don’t want to pay top dollar for +11, and for those who want to use +10 to help acquire +11. What’s worse is that when +15 comes out, they will probably make +10 more common, so that more people will try to get to the bleeding edge of +14 and +15. All true, but you have to remember relative value. For example, if Ubersword+10 gives you the absolute edge currently, and is extremely rare; even if the item becomes more common, it will still be far more than the average player has access to. With hundreds of thousands of players, and probably millions of characters, a few thousand more of +10 won’t make a considerable dent in the gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/47 "2008-10-24T20:04:46Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Talk of virtual property as real makes me very uneasy. My virtual property would be worth several hundred bucks (and the character that much again or more), but it isn’t real property. If tomorrow I undock my Golem with the Gist A-Type XL booster (worth roughly $85 according to an ISK-selling site I googled) and someone suicide ganks me, that ship is gone. Poof. I have no recourse. If it were real property, then if someone destroyed it I would have some sort of recourse. If you take a baseball bat to my car, I have a civil case for damages against you. If you take a load of heavy blaster ammo to my ship, all I can do is whine in local. Well, that’s not really true. I can blow you up before you blow me up. But should I fail to do so, there’s nothing I can do. Ergo, it is in no way my property from a legal perspective. I wonder how long it will be before someone starts offering insurance for virtual property? I could see one tier of insurance against something like someone deleting an account, and another tier against part-of-game destruction of something like **Gorsnak’s** ship. I wonder how that would be paid out? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/48 "2008-10-24T22:22:12Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > If it were real property, then if someone destroyed it I would have some sort of recourse. If you take a baseball bat to my car, I have a civil case for damages against you. If you take your race car out on a track and due to aggressive racing by a everyone involved you get into a wreck do you have recourse? Not really, it’s assumed that racing is a dangerous sport and things can happen. The game you are playing is assumed to be a dangerous place where things like that can happen. It’s assumed risk. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039/49 "2008-10-27T12:14:36Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > I wonder how long it will be before someone starts offering insurance for virtual property? I could see one tier of insurance against something like someone deleting an account, and another tier against part-of-game destruction of something like **Gorsnak’s** ship. I wonder how that would be paid out? The funniest thing about this is that the game Gorsnak and I play HAS virtual insurance for your virtual warships…and it costs an arm and a leg, as befits a high-risk thing like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-steal-virtual-items/469039.md?page=2)