Don't Theories of Infinite Universes Imply a Type of Reincarnation?

SentientMeat While your post was good, and I did read it. My lack of math skills and a seemingly fundamental difference in the definition of consciousness, I don’t know if that at this time we could even come to a common understanding of that which is being discussed.

For instance, I do not believe that ‘consciousness’ is diminished when taking nitrous oxide. I’ve taken nitrous oxide and been perfectly lucid of the fact that I was experiencing things differently, and I marvelled at how suddenly quiet sounds were quite loud, like the refridgerator, but the people talking to me seemed very far off and distant. We refer to sleep as lack of “consciousness” but that’s hardly the case. We delve into the subconscious which is just another level of consciousness, one we have deemed as “lower”, but just as the first floor of a building isn’t lesser in quality of the 33rd floor, neither one is either more or less conscious than the other, only conscious of different things. I personally do not believe that consciousness is limited to the brain, I think that all interactions that I spawn in the world is my “consciousness”, and that my will still interacts within other people’s brains even if I were to suddenly die. In otherwords I become a spirit, or a viral meme, but this does not mean that I lack “consciousness”.

I was comparing the size of the Planck unit to that of the entire known universe. If the known universe is expanding then the Planck unit is shrinking by comparison. I didn’t claim we discovered new galaxies, only that we discovered new properties of empty space, making empty space loom larger in the perspective than it did previously, thus the idea that it is “expanding”. Also, when I say there is no size to the universe, what I mean is that size is a property of measure, and requires a comparison to something else to be in any way meaningful. So the size of the entire universe is infinitely small and infinitely large all at once. In order for it to expand it would need to have a definable size. Since the word “define” means to set a limit. It is my feeling that to set such a limit would merely be fooling ourselves in an attempt to make it easier to understand the universe, thus obliterating any ability to do so. So as I was saying, just because the galaxies seem farther away, are they really? When you get into physical properties of celestial entities of that size there are a lot of factors that can go into color shifts and other such manners of measure by which we are attempting to quantify the intervening distance. I remain skeptical that we have discovered a way to accurately measure the distance between galaxies. The empty space is absolutely filled with the energies that interplay between celestial entities. Maybe the galaxy is not moving away, and that some other sort of confluence of energy, or entity that we cannot currently detect is growing and pushing those galaxies out of the way, but this does not imply that the universe itself is growing. The universe itself is constant, it simply is, and I think it’s a mistake to apply such definitions to the universe. If you want to say that the intervening space between us and the Andromeda Galaxy increases over time, I am willing to buy it, but I don’t think such a limited measure should be applied to the overall universe, which from all evidence I have ever seen or experienced, it is already infinite.

So my argument is that our awareness of the universe is changing, and that while it’s fundamental nature will remain as it always was and ever will be, how we perceive and measure it’s constituent parts will remain in constant flux.

Erek

A minor nitpick. The Copenhagen theory would never consort with the Everett Many Worlds Hypothesis.

The Bohrs et al theory, developed in the '20s and 30’s, states that when a particle is faced with a choice it makes that choice based on probability and the wave function collapses.

The Many Worlds Hypothesis, developed by Hugh Everett lll in the 50’s, states that there is no collapse. All possibilities become real. Someone should write a book and name it the Schizophrenic Universe. Catchy title, I think.

Please continue your discussion. This is a terrific thread.

In an infinite universe wouldn’t there be an infinite number of simulated almost-universes?

Maybe.

And maybe ours is such a universe. How could we tell?

You are reading too much into what I wrote. There is no mysticism whatsoever. I am just looking at any of the infinite universes theories and asking if what has already occurred is certain to occur again. I don’t think that most physists would have any problem discussing whether say the element iron is likely to occur again with other universes. I am just saying that if a given person’s conscienceness is nothing but a physical property then infinite universes could recreate it as well as they could any other physical property (albeit with a lower probability than most things). The lower probability shouldn’t matter with infinite universes.

I didn’t specify nitrous oxide, I specified sevoflurane (general anaesthetic). If your consciousness is not diminished under that, how come you look so much like a dead body?

No, the expansion of the universe is on a cosmological scale between galaxies: gravity counteracts that expansion within galaxies, so the Planck length remains constant.

Again, it is not a property of empty space that we have discovered, it is the redshift and CMB which shows the universe to be expanding.

The North Pole of the universe is 14 billion years away: the redshift and CMB demonstrate so.

Well, suggest them, and I’ll go through the reasons why they have been disproven. This is what happened to Fred Hoyle’s Steady-State attempts to explain the redshift, and even he couldn’t clutch at any straws for the CMB.

The speed of light in vacuo is constant. Agreed? Disagree, with supporting evidence, and I assure you’ll get a Nobel prize.

All galaxies are getting further from us and each other. Call that what you like. And 14 billion light-years (plus lots more from inflation, perhaps) is still not infinite.

ie. sometimes we get things wrong, like you and Fred Hoyle. But once those flawed suggestions are falsified, what remains in the crucible is an incredibly strong working conclusion. The expansion of the universe is as true as the roundness of the world.

I consider myself a strong “atheist-materialist,” but I don’t see why this is any sort of rebuttal. Clearly there is an infinitesimal but nonzero chance of almost any truly absurd event occurring. Why should it matter whether or not these events in some sense actually occur in some infinitesimal but nonzero subset of real universes?

In your opinion, is the case:

lim (p -> 0) [Some event happens with probability p]

metaphorically or morally different in some nontrivial way from:

[Some event happens with probability 0]?

If so, then your internal mapping from actual situations to metaphysical/moral evaluations contains discontinuities, which I consider a rather odd state of affairs.

SentientMeat That’s interesting, I’ll need to look more into this. I am still skeptical, because oftentimes I feel like such definitive statements of the limits of the universe are an imposition of artificial limits. However, I don’t know enough about the subject really to say either way, but I’ll be interested in learning about it.

Erek

Generally speaking, that’s true. However , the Adromeda Galaxy will collide with our galaxy in a few million years because they are gravitationally bound.

I see this also being possible through technology. First we need to somehow track where every bit of energy and matter has been at any given time (through some type of gravity or lightdetectors or something) throughout history.

It would probably be like a big puzzle. But if every action has an equal and opposite reaction, all we’d need to do is take a snapshot of all matter and energy in the universe mapped by location, speed, trajectory, time, etc etc…then we just need to work backwards in realtime with lots of patience and a hell of a supercomputer until we reach the beginning. This would give an exact play by play in real time of any animal, person, plant, etc life as it saw it. I just realized all this would do is create a clone with your memories. I’m not sure what this would mean for our consciousness or what it really is. Very confused right now.

lol