# Don't use "so" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 6, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307 "2016-02-06T12:10:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/21 "2016-02-06T15:57:39Z")
I agree with **pulykamell**. I also find it interesting that management staff at my work, use this word constantly. While the lower or blue collars hardly ever use it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/22 "2016-02-06T16:05:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IME that tends to lead to single-sentence paragraphs. Which (:)?) are awkward themselves unless they represent dialog. Single-sentence paragraphs have always been common in newspaper writing, and they are perfectly appropriate for anything that will be read in narrow-column format, such as on your phone. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/23 "2016-02-06T16:44:25Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I’m disappointed - I expected by now someone would have posted “So fuck that shit.” > > What a letdown. Oh come on! I came close. Didn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/24 "2016-02-06T16:55:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > It’s a common phrase that means “going to”. One reason why it is popular is because of text messaging. When sending a text message, many people prefer to type “gonna” instead of “going to”. Same goes for “wanna”. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/25 "2016-02-06T17:14:23Z")
I don’t know if I overuse the word or not. I’ll have to ask my SO. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/26 "2016-02-06T18:00:38Z")
[“So after dinner you want some kugel maybe?”](https://youtu.be/zWiQwn7fR6I?t=3m20s) just doesn’t have the impact without the “so.” And neither does “So a rabbi, a minister, and a priest walk into a bar…” ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/27 "2016-02-06T18:05:04Z")
I accept your challenge FCM. It’s one of my lazy habits that needs to go away. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/28 "2016-02-06T18:28:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > . . . It’s just a placeholder, pause type of word. (ETA: Actually, a type of discourse marker, as mentioned above, better describes it. . . . Same thing with the word “well.” Right – people are using _so_ as a discourse marker for what English speakers normally have been doing with _well_. That’s clear to everyone, I think. We all get that. The question is _why_? Why use _so_, when we have _well_, which has suitably served this purpose for probably centuries? My personal theory–which I have mentioned before in the other threads–is that it has come from college educated people. Often college lectures address large topics, which span over several class meetings. So at the beginning of a lecture which is following from a previous class, the professor will start by saying _So,_. He or she does this to indicate that the present lecture is actually a continuation of the topic from the previous lecture. For example, in a series of lectures on WWII, a professor might open a lecture by saying, “So, in the spring of 1942, the Germans have captured territory in Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic republics.” The professor then goes on to talk about the Battle of Stalingrad, or something. An eighteen-year-old freshman, not particularly interested in WWII, and–more importantly–inexperienced in the language of academic discourse, will hear this simply as “the way smart people start off when they are going to impart important knowledge.” With time they generalize this, and so, after they graduate and find themselves in some kind of position where someone is asking them questions, they try to constitute themselves as expert–like their previous professors–by mechanically beginning their answers with _so_. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/29 "2016-02-06T18:30:03Z")
I’d be happy with getting rid of the vapid chef-speak. “So you have before you an oven roasted quail with a delicate house-made gremolata…” “So I have made for you a salad of locally harvested organic Kentucky blue grass and dent d’leon blossoms…” So what? Let’s eat! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/30 "2016-02-06T18:40:38Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Right – people are using _so_ as a discourse marker for what English speakers normally have been doing with _well_. That’s clear to everyone, I think. We all get that. > > The question is _why_? Why use _so_, when we have _well_, which has suitably served this purpose for probably centuries? > > My personal theory–which I have mentioned before in the other threads–is that it has come from college educated people. Often college lectures address large topics, which span over several class meetings. So at the beginning of a lecture which is following from a previous class, the professor will start by saying _So,_. He or she does this to indicate that the present lecture is actually a continuation of the topic from the previous lecture. For example, in a series of lectures on WWII, a professor might open a lecture by saying, “So, in the spring of 1942, the Germans have captured territory in Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltic republics.” The professor then goes on to talk about the Battle of Stalingrad, or something. > > An eighteen-year-old freshman, not particularly interested in WWII, and–more importantly–inexperienced in the language of academic discourse, will hear this simply as “the way smart people start off when they are going to impart important knowledge.” With time they generalize this, and so, after they graduate and find themselves in some kind of position where someone is asking them questions, they try to constitute themselves as expert–like their previous professors–by mechanically beginning their answers with _so_. I’m not sure I buy that theory, but I’m willing to consider it. I did go to college, but I don’t recall “so” being used much by professors. I can’t prove it, though, and you can say that I subconsciously internalized it, but I honestly don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/31 "2016-02-06T18:47:20Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > I’d be happy with getting rid of the vapid chef-speak. > > “So you have before you an oven roasted quail with a delicate house-made gremolata…” But this is _ **not** _ what we’re talking about with regard to the word _so_. In this case, the chef is connecting the process of preparing and cooking with the dish which you now see. This is a “normal” way of using _so_: to indicate a result of something which has previously been referenced in the discourse. You may have issues with the _other_ terms–the lexicon of “chef-speak” (e.g., _delicate_, _house-made_, etc.)–but the use of _so_ in this example is standard. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/32 "2016-02-06T18:47:42Z")
I admit I overuse “so” but I at least use it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/33 "2016-02-06T18:55:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure I buy that theory, but I’m willing to consider it. I did go to college, but I don’t recall “so” being used much by professors. I can’t prove it, though, and you can say that I subconsciously internalized it, but I honestly don’t think so. Well, this is just for me my gut intuition, and, as you say, there’s no real way of testing it. It is clear, though, that the “problematic” increase in the use of so is a relatively recent thing, which can be documented by simply listening to or reading transcripts of interviews of “experts” over the last few decades [CAVEAT: A simplistic google or n-gram search isn’t going to be enough. One has to do a real discourse analysis.] ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/34 "2016-02-06T18:59:48Z")
In post #15 **guizot** gave a nice example of what s/he’s beefing about. (Which with I agree FTR.) I’m not sure that **FCM** ’s OP was the same beef. As a consequence of the foregoing (aka “So” :)) I wonder how many of us are talking past one another and unwittingly supporting or denigrating very different use cases for “so”? I for one look forward to clarification from our esteemed OP. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/35 "2016-02-06T19:03:11Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Right – people are using _so_ as a discourse marker for what English speakers normally have been doing with _well_. That’s clear to everyone, I think. We all get that. > > The question is _why_? Why use _so_, when we have _well_, which has suitably served this purpose for probably centuries? I think “well” serves a slightly different purpose from “so”. As I said above, I think “so” has come to indicate, “I’m going to establish context before telling you something.” On the other hand, “well” often seems to mean, “I’m going to tell you something, but it isn’t the whole story”, or “I’m going to respond, but your question suggests that you are missing or misinterpreting some information.” It doesn’t carry the same implication that the response will contain the context, it just indicates that there is a contextual disconnect that may need to be resolved. If the response does contain the context, it tends to follow the direct answer, rather than precede it, as is generally the case with “so”. I’ll admit that it’s a subtle distinction, but I think each marker conveys information in the relevance channel. (The fact that both are sometimes used as delays, much like less articulate fillers, muddies the water a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/36 "2016-02-06T19:10:49Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > [“So after dinner you want some kugel maybe?”](https://youtu.be/zWiQwn7fR6I?t=3m20s) just doesn’t have the impact without the “so.” > > And neither does “So a rabbi, a minister, and a priest walk into a bar…” Again, as with the chef case, I think it should be clear this is NOT what we’re talking about here. Look at the example conversation in post #15, and **Balance** ’s explanation in post #17. They are NOT the same usage as this case. I agree with you that–in the kugel example–it’s standard and useful. It’s just _ **a completely different discourse marker** _, because there is prior, contextualized topic (namely, the previous dinner). If you look at the example in post #15, each question is a NEW topic, but the speaker still opens with **so**. As for the case of “_So a \_\_\_\_\_, a \_\_\_\_\_\_ and a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ walk into a bar_” – that’s a pro forma, formalized, stock joke opening line, the implication being that it is a continuation of a series of jokes. And–most obviously–the joke isn’t an answer to an interviewer’s question. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/37 "2016-02-06T19:23:06Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I think “well” serves a slightly different purpose from “so”. Yes, that’s true, it’s slightly different. More importantly, though, in every case of this problematic use of _so_, _well_ could be used, and often is. In the example from the Lake Superior State site: A: _How did you learn to play the piano?_ B: _So my dad was in a classical music club._ Compare: A: _How did you learn to play the piano?_ B: _Well, my dad was in a classical music club…_ The difference is that _well_ is used to lower register (and possibly mark some degree of familiarity between the two speakers), while _so_ is used–in my opinion–as an affectation of expertise. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/38 "2016-02-06T19:29:51Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > As I said above, I think “so” has come to indicate, “I’m going to establish context before telling you something.” Yes, that would be more akin to the “normal” use of so, (and could be contributing to this increase), but in so many of the cases that we collect, what the speaker says subsequently has _ **nothing** _ to do with context. That is, there is no following elaboration–it is the total response. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/39 "2016-02-06T19:45:54Z")
I don’t disagree with the distinctions called out in **Balance** ’s post #35, but I more often see “well” used in yet another way: as a soft-pedal or to imply the speaker is not endorsing, or even is disowning, the info to follow. e.g. Dad: “What just happened here? How did the window get broken?” Kid: “Well, \” Boss: “How can we solve the XYZ account problem?” Worker: “Well, we could do A. Or B, … or maybe even C.” All said with a flat affect and a tone implying no confidence that any of these solutions will actually work, but only that the worker was obligated to say something less than nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307/40 "2016-02-06T20:24:22Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The difference is that _well_ is used to lower register (and possibly mark some degree of familiarity between the two speakers), while _so_ is used–in my opinion–as an affectation of expertise. That would be, as you say, a problematic usage (in my opinion). However, I find that misuse grating more because the speaker does not follow through with implied contextual information than because of the affectation. If you lead with “so”, I expect to hear a story and will be tempted to fling rotten vegetables if one is not forthcoming. I’m also less certain than you that it is specifically an affectation of expertise, as opposed to a general effect of newscaster normalization. Common dialects and accents among newscasters exert a sort of gravity\*. Many people are influenced by the general impression that this is how informed, serious people who earn their living by talking should speak. People who aren’t good at context in the first place often end up mimicking the talking heads’ usage without understanding it. \*I can attest to this influence firsthand. I’m something of a mimic, and I absorbed it as a child to such an extent that my dialect and accent were almost entirely General American. I only sounded “local” if I deliberately switched registers. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I don’t disagree with the distinctions called out in Balance’s post #35, but I more often see “well” used in yet another way: as a soft-pedal or to imply the speaker is not endorsing, or even is disowning, the info to follow. e.g. > > Dad: “What just happened here? How did the window get broken?” > Kid: “Well, \” > > Boss: “How can we solve the XYZ account problem?” > Worker: “Well, we could do A. Or B, … or maybe even C.” All said with a flat affect and a tone implying no confidence that any of these solutions will actually work, but only that the worker was obligated to say something less than nonsensical. Valid cases–“well” is often used in offering excuses or mitigating circumstances. I think it could be argued that those are extensions of what I described. The little kid lie is offering (false) context to the window incident; alternatively, it could simply be delaying filler as the kid’s mind works on the unnecessarily intricate details of the lie. The worker is implying that the boss is omitting part of the context–the part about the problem probably being unsolvable. I might be stretching the point though. “Well” is also used in offering compromises, and I’m not sure how to fit that into the relevance framework. As **guizot** pointed out, “well” has been used as a marker for quite a while; it’s had plenty of time to wallow out the niche. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-use-so/745307.md?page=3)