# Don't we also have to respect cheaters and sociopaths?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 28, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204 "2005-01-28T23:25:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/41 "2005-01-29T00:16:01Z")
> [@LilyoftheValley](#):
>
> You mean the Mariayna’s Trench. Duh.
It was only called that once. For 20 minutes. In the 1960s.
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### Author:  [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/42 "2005-01-29T00:16:06Z")
Maybe Owen Rand was a sociopath?
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### Author:  [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/43 "2005-01-29T00:16:39Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> Some might think it unfair to harp on a single spelling mistake in the OP’s post and disregard his premise.
>
> Tough. It’s Ayn Rand.
Especially because it wasn’t pointed out… oh… about 1000 times before your post. Bravo.
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### Author:  [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/44 "2005-01-29T00:17:25Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> Dear Penthouse,
> I never believed it could happen to Ayn Rand …
I’d very much like to read more of THIS penthouse letter. Someone with more wit than I, perhaps you, care to volunteer?
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/45 "2005-01-29T00:19:06Z")
Oh, man. Choice. Somebody should start “what if famous writers wrote to Penthouse?”
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### Author:  [@Chimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimpy)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/46 "2005-01-29T00:21:08Z")
> [@Giraffe](#):
>
> No! A is A. A is _not_ Ä.
>
> In fact, Ä is not Ä either. Fuck Ä.
Fuckin’ Ä **Giraffe**.
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### Author:  [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/47 "2005-01-29T00:21:10Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> I resolve to use any method fair or fowl to pass to my classes.
Does it bother anyone here that I visualized a guy riding an emu past a crossing guard and into a school?
- Her name is Atlas like that book by Ian Rand
- Oh Atlas, Atlas dance across the Rio Grande
_by Der Rand Der Rand_
Did you know that if you covered the Objectivist Ian Rand with salt, you could go to the Yale prom?
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### Author:  [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/48 "2005-01-29T00:32:48Z")
> [@Chimpy](#):
>
> Fuckin’ Ä **Giraffe**.
Wow. Me, I’m just Drinkin’ Ä Beer.
Kudos.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/49 "2005-01-29T00:34:39Z")
Ah, it’s a 1920s style Ayn Rand. [sub]ducks[/sub]
> [@Shirley Ujest](#):
>
> Is it Ann Rand or Ayn Rand?
>
> Thank you ?
Ayn and it’s rhymes with “whine.” You know, kinda like the OP?
And he claims he’s going to be a nurse. _shudder_
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/50 "2005-01-29T00:37:26Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#):
>
> Does it bother anyone here that I visualized a guy riding an emu past a crossing guard and into a school?
No. Here in America we are trained to respect fantasies of all types, no matter how sick, twisted, and perverted they are.
Emus? Ewww.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/51 "2005-01-29T00:39:32Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#):
>
> Especially because it wasn’t pointed out… oh… about 1000 times before your post. Bravo.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/52 "2005-01-29T00:57:30Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#):
>
> So, Ian Rand, a Satanist and a Hedonist walked into a swingers bar…
With a fowl . . .
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/53 "2005-01-29T00:58:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **Chimpy** :
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Originally Posted by Giraffe:
> > No! A is A. A is not Ä.
> >
> > In fact, Ä is not Ä either. Fuck Ä.
>
> Fuckin’ Ä Giraffe.
Actually, it’s “Fucking A. Tucci” as in that scene in _Jungle Fever_ with Wesley Snipes.
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### Author:  [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/54 "2005-01-29T01:01:54Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> In my diversity, and multiculturalism in American Religion class last semester we discussed how it is important to respect even those we disagree with. As examples she offered Satanists, Objectivists (think of Ian Rand), and Hedonists just as much as we might Jews and Catholics. Well fine, why dosesn’t this attitude apply to cheaters and sociopaths? For example a teacher below complains about students who cheat. Well as a Libertarian/Conservative/Republican/Hedonist/Socipath I don’t even believe the government should be involved in telling me that I have to go to nursing school to take the NCLEX and become a licensed nurse (you see I am reasonable since I will compromise and agree to let the government have basic compentcy tests although in truth I don’t really support even these). Since I reject the governments authority I resolve to use any method fair or fowl to pass to my classes. Indeed, this is consistent with my Sociopathic outlook which you are obliged to respect at least according to my American Religion class.
>
> Where am I going wrong here?
You’re confusing someone’s right to _think_ whatever they want with the right to _do_ whatever they want, that’s where you’re going wrong. People have to respect your right to _believe_ that you’re above the rules, but they don’t have to put up with your bullshit when you start _acting_ like you’re above the rules.
See, I can believe that everyone with blond hair and blue eyes is the agent of Satan sent to kill me, and that my only chance of survival is to kill them all. It’s just peachy for me to believe that. It’s not peachy, however, for me to actually go around killing people.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/55 "2005-01-29T01:08:00Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#):
>
> You’re confusing someone’s right to _think_ whatever they want with the right to _do_ whatever they want, that’s where you’re going wrong. People have to respect your right to _believe_ that you’re above the rules, but they don’t have to put up with your bullshit when you start _acting_ like you’re above the rules.
>
> See, I can believe that everyone with blond hair and blue eyes is the agent of Satan sent to kill me, and that my only chance of survival is to kill them all. It’s just peachy for me to believe that. It’s not peachy, however, for me to actually go around killing people.
I disagree with this stance… while one has a metaphysical right to believe whatever they want, some beliefs are just wrong. And while, yes, actions are the only things which may really be punished in a civil society, I don’t think we always need to ‘spare the messenger.’
If, for instance, one believed that all blond folks were agents of Satan, the correct course of action would be to get them to a psychologist/psychiatrist asap. And yes, they have the ulimate existential right to believe it, but instances of dangerous beliefs should still be fought.
YMMV.
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/56 "2005-01-29T02:17:37Z")
The question is, if you didn’t change the oil in your emu for 100K miles, would the oil then be fowl? 😕
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### Author:  [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/57 "2005-01-29T02:30:29Z")
We all have to respect cheater and sociopaths. Otherwise they’d fire us.
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### Author:  [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/58 "2005-01-29T02:50:15Z")
It should also be pointed out that the primary societal objections to sociopaths are not their ideas, but their behaviors. Those behaviors are, at times discussed and justified with ideas, but the pretty much arise out of an emotional deadness, that won’t allow the sociopath to consider others to be people, but rather complex objects to be manipulated and used. Arguing philosophy with a sociopath is fine but be aware his or her evaluation of the importance and definition of winning the argument are unlikely to be similar to your own.
Of course, you should treat sociopaths with the same respect that you treat all people. Understanding that that attitude is probably not reciprocated is not disrespectful, or unreasonable.
## Tris
“The road to truth is long, and lined the entire way with annoying bastards.” ~ Alexander Jablokov ~
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/59 "2005-01-29T02:58:57Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#):
>
> Of course, you should treat sociopaths with the same respect that you treat all people.
To keep this thread on topic, I’ll ask:
Do have to to treat sociopaths as I would Ayn Rand? 'Cause then I get to beat them to death.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/60 "2005-01-29T03:09:16Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> And besides, **featherlou** and **pravnik** have answered the question as well as it could be answered. The rest of us can just have fun.
{Checks to see what I wrote, or if I was just blathering}
Thanks, mang.
That is an excellent point, **CrazyCatLady**. Is it really okay for people to think and believe any old thing they want, as long as what they think and believe doesn’t have an impact on anyone else? If our hypothetical sociopath thinks that everyone that thwarts him should die, but he never does anything to anyone else, does that make him a bad person?
(I love the idea of famous writers writing to Penthouse. Can you imagine Stephen King’s version? I think we need **Scylla** to write that one.)
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