# Don't we also have to respect cheaters and sociopaths?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 28, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204 "2005-01-28T23:25:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/61 "2005-01-29T03:32:09Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> Since I reject the governments authority I resolve to use any method fair or fowl to pass to my classes.
Would these be the classes that are being paid for by the government (whose authority you reject)?
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/62 "2005-01-29T03:33:15Z")
Does keeping my mouth shut and hiding my contempt mean the same thing as “respecting” other views? Sometimes that’s the best I can do with people who espouse ideas I think are nonsensical, stupid or downright insane.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/63 "2005-01-29T03:48:34Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#):
>
> Does keeping my mouth shut and hiding my contempt mean the same thing as “respecting” other views?
Sometimes, yes, that’s what respecting their right to their view means. Depending on the situation. Sometimes one must speak up to disagree, else silence will seem to indicate assent. But usually publically trying to debate or mock a person’s belief is not really constructive.
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### Author:  [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/64 "2005-01-29T04:52:26Z")
I don’t \*have \* to respect anyone. Respect is earned.
I respect the right to say what you please. But I don’t have to inherently respect what people say or do.
That is all.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/65 "2005-01-29T05:47:38Z")
Do we also have to respect Opal? If we tell her to fucko off will Og smash us?
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/66 "2005-01-29T06:09:44Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> Where am I going wrong here?
Where to begin…where to begin?
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### Author:  [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/67 "2005-01-29T08:18:38Z")
I was responding to the teacher in a thread below who was ranting about his computer science students who were appearently cheating buy buying their code online. I’m sure that the animals that early man first slaughtered with stone tools would have considered it cheating if they had posessed the ability to comprehend what was happening to them. Stephen Hawking probably received extra time on his exams when reading Physics at Oxford (or is it Cambridge) due to his disability. If I try to compete with others in computer science, medicine or nursing (or anything else) with my paltry 114 IQ while they average 130 am I not also handicapped? Was it cheating when we attempted to make the Germans think that we were landing at Cherbourg rather than Normandy? Was it cheating when we used an H-Bomb on Japan or when William Friedman broke the code of their Purple Machine in project Magic? How about when we used our cruise missles against the Taliban? Well I would argue that much of life is a pitched battle for scarce resources ranging from seats in schools, to good jobs and yes even women. In other words life is WAR, and in war its far worse to lose than to cheat.
My father taught Physics for many years at the college level and never had a problem with this issue. In fact, he allowed students to “decide” the grade they wanted at the beginning of the semester. Each “grade” required specific amounts of work and although there were tests they could be repeated as many times as necessary (although there were something like 15 versions of each test so a student wouldn’t get same quesitons). The point is that if teachers would be more concerned about teaching and less concerned about grading then cheating wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/68 "2005-01-29T08:26:24Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#):
>
> I don’t \*have \* to respect anyone. Respect is earned.
>
> I respect the right to say what you please. But I don’t have to inherently respect what people say or do.
>
> That is all.
Right on! Respect is earned and not given. I am a bit tired of this touchy-feely multiculturiastic paradigm we’re in. Some ideas are better than others, some beliefs are inherently out of touch with reality.
And while you aren’t ever allowed to cause physical harm to another human being, believing that they’re wrong, silently, and/or calling them out on stupid shit is just fine in my book.
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### Author:  [@teleute12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teleute12)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/69 "2005-01-29T09:06:13Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> My father taught Physics for many years at the college level and never had a problem with this issue. In fact, he allowed students to “decide” the grade they wanted at the beginning of the semester. Each “grade” required specific amounts of **work** …
(bolding mine)
Right, see, there’s the thing. Those students had to work for whatever grade they felt like getting, and buying your homework off the internet isn’t actually doing any work. “Work” implies that you put effort into the assignment beyond doing a google search, pulling out your credit card, and printing out the results.
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### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/70 "2005-01-29T12:26:06Z")
If it’s any consolation, Roland, I do not respect you.
Let’s not confuse respect with measured degrees of toleration.
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/71 "2005-01-29T12:35:28Z")
What the fuck are you talking about??
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> In other words life is WAR, and in war its far worse to lose than to cheat.
Oh wait. I guess I see what you’re talking about. And it’s pretty ugly.
You’re right. In war losing is worse than “cheating”. By which I guess you mean using deception. Although I wonder about calling that cheating as it is expected, by both sides.
But if you can’t see the difference between war and education…
I guess from a social darwinist perspective, life is nothing more than a viscous competition for resourses. But even if I accept that view of human society (and I don’t)
…if you cheat and doen’t learn the codes you’re supposed to you can’t actually do the job you’re supposedly trained for. And all the more so, if you cheat on your nursing exam you can’t do _that_ job you’ve supposedly been trained for. I can’t imagine not seeing a problem with that.
Now, if what you’re saying is that the grading system promotes unheathy competition and in some respects encourages cheating out of desperation, I might agree. If you’re saying we should teach for mastery rather than a good grade I definatly agree. But neither of those ideas gives approval to cheating.
So if you’re pitting is directed at the teacher who didn’t like her students not bothering to learn what they were there to learn…well, I don’t know what to say…except I hope you’re never my nurse.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/72 "2005-01-29T13:06:19Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#):
>
> Does it bother anyone here that I visualized a guy riding an emu past a crossing guard and into a school?
I’d **cast a wary** eye on anyone riding an emu!
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/73 "2005-01-29T13:37:15Z")
> [@Polycarp](#):
>
> I’d **cast a wary** eye on anyone riding an emu!
If I were a cassowary
On the plains of Timbuctoo,
I would eat a missionary,
Cassock, bands, and hymn-book too.
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### Author:  [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/74 "2005-01-29T13:56:11Z")
Guys, in case you haven’t spotted it, you’ve been thoroughly whooshed. It appears that Roland does in fact have a sense of humour.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/75 "2005-01-29T13:58:07Z")
cite?
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/76 "2005-01-29T14:37:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> cite?
It’s common knowledge that Objectivists tend to be Aynal retentive!
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/77 "2005-01-29T14:40:14Z")
So Aynybody could’ve figured that out through the use of reason?
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### Author:  [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/78 "2005-01-29T15:33:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Roland Deschain_
> Stephen Hawking probably received extra time on his exams when reading Physics at Oxford (or is it Cambridge) due to his disability.
This material has whiskers on it.
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### Author:  [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/79 "2005-01-29T15:57:23Z")
> [@Polycarp](#):
>
> I’d **cast a wary** eye on anyone riding an emu!
**Rhea** lly? That seems a bit of **a stritch**.
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### Author:  [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/80 "2005-01-29T15:58:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> Do have to to treat sociopaths as I would Ayn Rand? 'Cause then I get to beat them to death.
You can’t beat Ayn Rand to death. Objectively speaking, that is.
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