# Don't we also have to respect cheaters and sociopaths?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 28, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204 "2005-01-28T23:25:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/81 "2005-01-29T16:05:22Z")
Ayn Fuckin’ Rand is riding an emu? It is the sign of the apocalypso.
What, btw, would be the plural for emu? emu’s or emii?
Just wondering.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/82 "2005-01-29T16:07:03Z")
The four horsemen:
War
Death
Plague
A bitchy Russian chick
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/83 "2005-01-29T16:29:06Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> …A bitchy Russian chick
Well, I’m not sure – she’s definitely Coulder, frigid in fact, but I’d need a cite that she’s Russian! 😃
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### Author:  [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/84 "2005-01-29T22:23:43Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> For example a teacher below complains about students who cheat. Well as a Libertarian/Conservative/Republican/Hedonist/Socipath I don’t even believe the government should be involved in telling me that I have to go to nursing school to take the NCLEX and become a licensed nurse (you see I am reasonable since I will compromise and agree to let the government have basic compentcy tests although in truth I don’t really support even these). Since I reject the governments authority I resolve to use any method fair or fowl to pass to my classes. Indeed, this is consistent with my Sociopathic outlook which you are obliged to respect at least according to my American Religion class.
>
> Where am I going wrong here?
**Roland** , either you don’t think before you post shit like this–or you do, which falls squarely within the category of trolling, i.e. posting over-the-top nonsense to get a rise out of people. The effect is the same either way. Somehow I doubt you’re really all that puzzled about ‘where you’re going wrong here’. Extrapolating a philsophical stance to short-changing knowledge necessary for you to tend competently for sick people under your care isn’t exactly a theoretical problem.
Either you have rudimentary common sense or you don’t. I’m not here to teach it to you, and we’re not about to get into a pissing match with you creating an exhaustive list of what’s blatantly stupid and what isn’t. I warn you again: either ratchet back your shock quotient for kicks or we will dispense with your presence.
TVeblen
Pit mod
Though Dopers’ responses here have been some of the most hilarious stuff I’ve read in ages.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/85 "2005-01-29T23:20:59Z")
I can’t believe I’m the first to correct the OP. It is **Ayn** Rand.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/86 "2005-01-29T23:24:51Z")
Where you go wrong.
Well, that’s a big question but in this case where you go is that what you think is the logical extension of the arguement that one should respect hedonists as much as you may respect a Jew equalls allowing people to break civil law or in this case the rules of your school.
The school says you can’t cheat.
It does not matter if you are a Catholic or Jew or an Objetivist.
You can’t cheat on a test or a paper.
What I’m thinking your teacher is trying to say is someithing along the lines of if a person was Jew, you probably wouldn’t say say to them that they sould eat some pork because it is healthy and safe to eat. And if a person came and twisted their ankle while during a naked twister game with three other couples you wouldn’t say something like, “Well, that was God punishing you for being a hedonist”.
It does not apply to the idea of cheating on a test.
That’s where you went wrong, Today.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/87 "2005-01-29T23:28:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I can’t believe I’m the first to correct the OP. It is **Ayn** Rand.
ROFLMAO!!
It’s nice to see the old dry **Libertarian** wit back! Thanks! 🙂
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/88 "2005-01-29T23:58:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **Roland** : The point is that if teachers would be more concerned about teaching and less concerned about grading then cheating wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
Concerned about cheating? Nyah! We all cheated our way through education courses. That’s only fair, isn’t it?
I do need a little help with a physics problem. What happens when an irresistable farce meets an emu viable object?
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/89 "2005-01-30T00:18:32Z")
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> Concerned about cheating? Nyah! We all cheated our way through education courses. That’s only fair, isn’t it?
>
> I do need a little help with a physics problem. What happens when an irresistable farce meets an emu viable object?
STDs – especially chronic Ghana rhea! 🙂
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### Author:  [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/90 "2005-01-30T00:20:28Z")
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> I do need a little help with a physics problem. What happens when an irresistable farce meets an emu viable object?
Aynal fissures. Very uncomfortable, at least for the emu.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/91 "2005-01-30T04:14:41Z")
Think about it-this fuckwit is going to be a NURSE.
I have the feeling we’ll be reading about him the paper one day…he’ll be one of those “Angels of Death”.
_shudder_
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/92 "2005-01-30T04:43:02Z")
> [@Giraffe](#):
>
> No! A is A. A is _not_ Ä.
>
> In fact, Ä is not Ä either. Fuck Ä.
Whoaaaa there big guy! No tautologisms in the BBQ Pit!
… or was that lawn chairs? 😕
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/93 "2005-01-30T04:59:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Think about it-this fuckwit is going to be a NURSE.
>
> I have the feeling we’ll be reading about him the paper one day…he’ll be one of those “Angels of Death”.
I’m (almost) sure you’re wrong. What I think is he’s going to be one of those nurses who slams the needle in your arm, who forces the catheter up your urethra, who brings your bedpan 15 minutes too late and whines about why the aide didn’t do it, who won’t inject morphine into a dying cancer patient because he knows better than the doctor.
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### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/94 "2005-01-30T06:04:56Z")
He will not become a nurse because he will flunk out of his program. He will flunk out because he is too dumb, and because he is not permitted to cheat.
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### Author:  [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/95 "2005-01-30T07:01:22Z")
> [@Muffin](#):
>
> He will not become a nurse because he will flunk out of his program. He will flunk out because he is too dumb, and because he is not permitted to cheat.
I may or may not become an RN, but I am already involved in patient care and have been for some years now. Indeed, whether or not I am successful in becoming an RN or stay a CNA/QNA/EMT I may very well be taking care of you or someone you love one day. Sleep well!
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/96 "2005-01-30T07:14:38Z")
Wow, how classy. You say that you don’t hold truck with basic competency tests, and would subvert them if you could. And we better look out, because you might be in charge of the health of our loved ones?
Disgusting.
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### Author:  [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/97 "2005-01-30T07:56:36Z")
Clean up on aisle 5! I don’t think Roland’s last comment is going to emuse anyone.
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### Author:  [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/98 "2005-01-30T08:24:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> Wow, how classy. You say that you don’t hold truck with basic competency tests, and would subvert them if you could. And we better look out, because you might be in charge of the health of our loved ones?
>
> Disgusting.
I’m sorry but I take it very personally when people suggest that I shouldn’t be able to do the job that I am betting my familie’s future on being able to do! I think that I provide dammed good care despite being a bit slower at the skills than other nurses. I may be a bit “dumb” in some ways as you put it, but in my CNA class I was the only one who actually continued to visit the Long Term Care residents on my own after our clinicals were over (and still do about once a month when I take my four year old son which makes their day). In addition, I bought one of the residents a new pair of eye glasses (her were lost by the facility and she didn’t have the money to replace them, and they said Medicaid wouldn’t pay for another pair for a whole year) when we were so low on money that it wasn’t clear that we would even be able to pay our mortgage. I also got the Marion County Library to start delivery and book pick up (including audio books) at the facility through an area volunteer service (enabling the residents to be able to have access to books and tapes for the first time ).
I realize that you may find some of my posts offensive, but do you have to be so fucking personal in your replies? It’s one thing to say that I’m a creep, and another to say that I’m a potential, deliberate killer. For Hells sake I was just responding off the cuff to a Pit thread below that honked me off a bit. I certainly didn’t cast any aspersions at that teacher other than to provide a potential contrary view to cheating and why people cheat. I’ve got a house full of legal semi automatic weapons and a license to carry a handgun and you guys seem to fear that I’m going to off someone with a needle or a catheter. I’ve never hurt anyone physically in my life other than Donny Lusk in the sixth grade (the shithead called my mother who was his first grade teacher a mean bitch, my only regret is that I wasn’t able to break his scrawny little snot mouthed nose), but if I did it wouldn’t be in some sneaky, cowardly backward manner that involved nursing.
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/99 "2005-01-30T08:33:10Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> I’m sorry but I take it very personally when people suggest that I shouldn’t be able to do the job that I am betting my familie’s future on being able to do! I think that I provide dammed good care despite being a bit slower at the skills than other nurses.
You can **not** provide proper care if you’re ‘slower at the skills’. In fact, you may very well put people’s lives in danger. The fact that you’ll put their lives in danger for your family doesn’t impress me.
Look, you may be nice to patients, and you may be doing this for your family, but medical care is literaly life and death. Standards are absolutely essential.
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> I realize that you may find some of my posts offensive, but do you have to be so fucking personal in your replies?
If you can’t do your job properly, people may die.
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> It’s one thing to say that I’m a creep, and another to say that I’m a potential, deliberate killer.
Never claimed that, a killer by inedpitude would be more likely in my book.
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> For Hells sake I was just responding off the cuff to a Pit thread below that honked me off a bit. I certainly didn’t cast any aspersions at that teacher other than to provide a potential contrary view to cheating and why people cheat.
You seem to not understand, you’ve talked about basic competency tests being an obstacle that you should subvert or get around. This is terrifying to hear from someone whose job is the protection of human life.
> [@Roland Deschain](#):
>
> I’ve got a house full of legal semi automatic weapons and a license to carry a handgun and you guys seem to fear that I’m going to off someone with a needle or a catheter.
No, I personally am afraid that you might ‘off someone’ because you’ve cheated to get through nursing school and don’t know the skills that are required of you.
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### Author:  [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-also-have-to-respect-cheaters-and-sociopaths/287204/100 "2005-01-30T08:51:57Z")
Being slow at skills would almost never be a patient care problem. I dare say that many people are slow at skills for the first few years on the job. It’s my first year do you think you could cut me a bit of slack? As for competency tests such as the NCLEX I’ve scored higher on the practice tests every time than my fucking wife who graduated SECOND in her nursing class and passed the actual exam with eighty five questions (the lowest you CAN pass with is around 75 and the highest is around 265, it’s an adaptive test). I also took the MCAT’s over six years ago and scored in the upper 10th percentile. What honks me off is that I think that such tests should be reserved for AFTER you graduate from school not the first few weeks OF school. By the way I would submit that you should be more concerned with the 50+% of nurses and DOCTORS that I’ve witnessed who don’t even take the time to wash their hands between patients before you start stressing over my being on the slow side. Many thousands of patients die each year of nosocomial infections that could largely be prevented by proper handwashing. You can take your fast nursing and stick it up your urethral meatus along with the case of MERSA or VERSA that you might end up getting with it. Besides, there are many things in nursing that don’t even involve bedside care. For example I am seriously considering Medical Records Abministration something my aunt did until she was almost 80 for nursing homes earning her close to 100K per year (and she was half nuts the last 20 years of her life).
> [@FinnAgain](#):
>
> You can **not** provide proper care if you’re ‘slower at the skills’. In fact, you may very well put people’s lives in danger. The fact that you’ll put their lives in danger for your family doesn’t impress me.
>
> Look, you may be nice to patients, and you may be doing this for your family, but medical care is literaly life and death. Standards are absolutely essential.
>
> If you can’t do your job properly, people may die.
>
> Never claimed that, a killer by inedpitude would be more likely in my book.
>
> You seem to not understand, you’ve talked about basic competency tests being an obstacle that you should subvert or get around. This is terrifying to hear from someone whose job is the protection of human life.
>
> No, I personally am afraid that you might ‘off someone’ because you’ve cheated to get through nursing school and don’t know the skills that are required of you.
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