# Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to ban violent computer shooter games? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210 "2012-12-16T19:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/181 "2012-12-26T19:22:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Don’t we have an obligation as a society to ban FarmVille? You’re an active participant in the game. You’re actively stalking your corn. I can only imagine what disturbed people think of all this graphic agriculture. Hey, if corn didn’t want to be harvested then it shouldn’t have been so delicious ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/182 "2012-12-26T19:26:18Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is not true in any way, shape, or form. It’s true in many ways. However, that’s usually opined by hardcore video game players who look down on what they view as a series doing damage to the FPS genre and is basically the video game equivalent of McDonalds. An outsider might lump both groups together as “non-casual.” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/183 "2012-12-26T19:48:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re actively stalking your corn. Best pun of the thread so far. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/184 "2012-12-26T19:48:36Z")
As many have previously pointed out, attempting to make the case that video game violence is the cause of mass murder is beyond pathetic. I will however at the end of the post give those who want to assign some blame to games a better argument to defend. But first: I’m often amazed at the pure arrogance of people who make these claims and have absolutely zero knowledge about what they’re talking about. I’m not elitist enough to think you need a Phd to express an opinion, but if you don’t even know the difference between Starcraft and Call of Duty… how do you feel comfortable talking about it? Personally I find it very hard to express opinions, especially publically and especially in such an assertive manner, on subjects I know nothing about. Because I am afraid of being embarrased when someone more knowledgable than me points out my lack of even basic knowledge on the subject. It may be that it is I who lack confidence, but to me this just seems horribly arrogant. Now, in the area of video games I do actually happen to be close to an ‘expert’, at least compared to the average person. I’ve arranged, participated in and contributed to several events, forums and game servers revolving around violent FPS games. As well as having killed more than my fair share of virtual opponents and having been, if I do say so myself, a pretty awesome CS player. I’ve met and interacted with thousands of gamers online, and hundred in real life. My conclusion is this: **Players of violent video games are on average much less violent than the general population.** Now this is just my empirical belief, but I am sure enough that if there was research done, statisics would prove this true. I’m fairly sure that the average soccer player (to just pick a random sport) is involved in more violent activities than us computer game afficionados. Note that I do not advocate banning soccer. Here is however a argument that I think could be made: **Playing violent video games could perhaps make you a more effective mass murderer** Pretty much all games teaches you something, so it stands to reason that a game simulating shooting people could make you better at shooting people. Strategy games evolved as training tools for the military and today flying sims are used in training pilots. In fact the whole point of games is to teach various skills. For example, most FPS games teaches you to quickly estimate the amount and disposition of targets in an enviroment. A skill which most non-gamers usually don’t put much conscious effort into practising. Everything else being equal, I suspect that someone who has played FPS games would have an edge on someone who hasn’t, when it comes to mass murder. But that is not a reason to ban them, since going to the gym, having laser surgery to cure astigmatism or reading a book on anatomy will also be likely to make you a more effective killer. And lastly… when will people give up the stupid kneejerk ban-reaction to everything? Some peoples first reaction to anything they don’t like, or they think is dangerous in some way is to propose a ‘ban’. Just take one second and ask yourself two questions: 1. Can a ban be effectively enforced? 2. What would be the effect if it was? These seem lite pretty obvious questions to answer before you propose a ban, and let’s look at the answers when it comes to video games. Can it be effectively enforced? The short answer is no. Unless you’re willing to turn into an authoritarian state it is impossible. A game is just information running on a platform, so even if you could enforce a ban on for example CD’s containing violent video games, the proliferation of the internet makes it impossible to stop people from accessing games. And even if it WAS possible to effectively enforce it, the cost would be economically huge for the US. The industry generates billions of dollars and employs more than a hundred thousand people. And it is still one of the faster growing industries in the world. It also creates vast effects of synergy for other industries. In short video games are awesome. They are fun, they teach us stuff and they create jobs. Gamers tend to be smarter and less violent than the average, and it takes a disturbing combination of ignorance and arrogance to blame virtual fun for real life tragedies. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/185 "2012-12-26T20:40:39Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > It’s true in many ways. However, that’s usually opined by hardcore video game players who look down on what they view as a series doing damage to the FPS genre and is basically the video game equivalent of McDonalds. An outsider might lump both groups together as “non-casual.” No. The definitions of “casual” and “hardcore” and everything in between are pretty well defined within the game industry. And the word has never been used to describe someone who exclusively plays FPSs. That’s just insane. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/186 "2012-12-26T20:59:00Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No. The definitions of “casual” and “hardcore” and everything in between are pretty well defined within the game industry. And the word has never been used to describe someone who exclusively plays FPSs. That’s just insane. It’s not insane and people like yourself who think they speak authoritively from on-high about all things video games are a dime a dozen. People who play only the latest madden and no other videogames are casual gamers, maybe not “casual gamers” the industry jargon, but they are not interested in videogaming, just the latest blockbuster. The same is true for people that only play Halo when it comes out. It has nothing to do with genre, it has to do with their interest in videogames, which is, get this, _casual._ ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/187 "2012-12-26T21:03:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, a casual gamer is someone who plays FarmVille for fifteen minutes on their lunch break. Anyone who spends a significant amount of time playing triple-A shooters is not a caual gamer in common usage of the term. You thinking I am confusing your industry-nerd jargon “casual gamer”=farmville, etc with something else, I am using the standard english language definition of a “casual” interest in gaming which means they play only the biggest mainstream titles and not for very long. There is no way you can call a guy who picks up the latest madden so that he won’t get smoked when he plays at his buddy’s house (the VAST majority of people that purchase Madden roster update 2015 each year) a “Hardcore gamer”. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/188 "2012-12-26T21:24:48Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > It’s not insane and people like yourself who think they speak authoritively from on-high about all things video games are a dime a dozen. People who play only the latest madden and no other videogames are casual gamers, maybe not “casual gamers” the industry jargon, but they are not interested in videogaming, just the latest blockbuster. The same is true for people that only play Halo when it comes out. It has nothing to do with genre, it has to do with their interest in videogames, which is, get this, _casual._ Words have meanings. And your use of “casual” in this discussion is wrong. You don’t get to decide otherwise. I’m terribly sorry. The fact of the matter is that there’s no good word to describe someone who plays the new Call of Duty/Madden every year or the new Halo every other year. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/189 "2012-12-26T21:31:00Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Words have meanings. And your use of “casual” in this discussion is wrong. You don’t get to decide otherwise. I’m terribly sorry. Words do have meanings, here is the definition of “casual” that I was using, note that it doesn’t anywhere say “farmville”: > [@](#): > > 1. without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark. > > … > > 1. irregular; occasional: a casual visitor. The funny part is that I even acknowleged the industry jargon use of the term “casual gamer” in my initial post that got your video-game-guru underpants to bunch up, but my point is still perfectly valid and you haven’t actually accomplished anything other than try to prove you are the smuggest omni-nerd. And I say this as a huge nerd myself, but I don’t go online to be a smug jerk about it by picking nits, I rebuild and modify arcade machines and travel cross country to compete in video game competitions, I just happen to not think my narrow view of videogaming is sacrosanct. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/190 "2012-12-26T21:31:54Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > The funny part is that I even acknowleged the industry jargon use of the term “casual gamer” in my initial post that got your video-game-guru underpants to bunch up, but my point is still perfectly valid and you haven’t actually accomplished anything other than try to prove you are the smuggest omni-nerd. Keep the childish taunts in the Pit, **rogerbox**. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/191 "2012-12-26T21:34:56Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > And lastly… when will people give up the stupid kneejerk ban-reaction to everything? Some peoples first reaction to anything they don’t like, or they think is dangerous in some way is to propose a ‘ban’. Obviously, we need a ban on banning things. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/192 "2012-12-26T21:39:01Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > The funny part is that I even acknowleged the industry jargon use of the term “casual gamer” in my initial post that got your video-game-guru underpants to bunch up, but my point is still perfectly valid and you haven’t actually accomplished anything other than try to prove you are the smuggest omni-nerd. You can call it industry jargon all you like, but simple browser games are “casual games” and games for iOS/Android devices are “mobile games.” “Casual gamer” is a pretty meaningless term (as I don’t know anyone who only plays simple browser games), but it’s the most common word to describe someone who does the majority of their gaming on Facebook. It’s a simple shorthand that was actually created by the business types, not gamers looking down their noses at browser-based gamers. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/193 "2012-12-26T21:49:34Z")
I wasn’t accusing anyone of looking down at browser based gamers, I was accusing you of being a snob about your inability to realize I wasn’t using a term of art when I said “casual gamer”. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/194 "2012-12-27T03:59:26Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is not true in any way, shape, or form. I know gamers that play call of duty type games when they play, and they only play once in a while. That’s called a casual gamer. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/195 "2012-12-27T04:54:44Z")
i know cats who play Fruit Ninja type of games, and they only play once in a while. the term is meaningless if it’s so widely applied. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/196 "2012-12-27T05:13:39Z")
Definitely the issue of how exactly we define “casual gamer” is central to the question of whether we should ban violent computer shooter games and is not a cretinous hijack at all. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/197 "2012-12-27T05:15:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Definitely the issue of how exactly we define “casual gamer” is central to the question of whether we should ban violent computer shooter games and is not a cretinous hijack at all. Look into the eyes of a casual gamer and you’ll see…the eyes of a _killer!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/198 "2012-12-27T05:23:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Look into the eyes of a casual gamer and you’ll see…the eyes of a _killer!!!_ A casual killer, right? ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/199 "2012-12-27T05:34:04Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You can call it industry jargon all you like, but simple browser games are “casual games” and games for iOS/Android devices are “mobile games.” “Casual gamer” is a pretty meaningless term (as I don’t know anyone who only plays simple browser games), but it’s the most common word to describe someone who does the majority of their gaming on Facebook. It’s a simple shorthand that was actually created by the business types, not gamers looking down their noses at browser-based gamers. The phrase “casual gamer” goes back at least to the early 90s, and probably to the 80s. Long before there was any such thing as Facebook or browser games. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/200 "2012-12-27T05:52:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A casual killer, right? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=11)