# Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to ban violent computer shooter games? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210 "2012-12-16T19:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/21 "2012-12-17T01:42:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The OP would help his argument if he could produce evidence that people who go on shooting sprees are more likely to play violent video games than most people their age. > > Please produce it. Correlation is not causation. Do naturally violent people like violent media more than most people do? If so, a correlation would be expected even if they have no impact whatsoever on anyone’s behavior or disposition. The OP would help his argument if he would produce evidence that playing violent video games makes a person more violent. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/22 "2012-12-17T01:44:15Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > there are also mass killings occurring in schools in China? > **[Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)** > > Twenty-two primary school children were wounded in a knife attack Friday in central China, authorities said. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/23 "2012-12-17T01:51:30Z")
At least one recent mass shooter did not play violent video games [http://www.governor.virginia.gov/TempContent/techPanelReport-docs/8%20CHAPTER%20IV%20LIFE%20AND%20MENTAL%20HEALTH%20HISTORY%20OF%20CHOpdf.pdf](http://www.governor.virginia.gov/TempContent/techPanelReport-docs/8%20CHAPTER%20IV%20LIFE%20AND%20MENTAL%20HEALTH%20HISTORY%20OF%20CHOpdf.pdf) “…Cho went to bed early and got up early, so his roommate just left him alone and gave him his space. The only activities Cho engaged in were studying, sleeping, and downloading music. He never saw him play a video game, which he thought strange since he and most other students play them.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/24 "2012-12-17T01:53:49Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [QUOTE=shijinn] > there are also mass killings occurring in schools in China? > **[Knife attack at Chinese school wounds 22 children | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html)** > > Twenty-two primary school children were wounded in a knife attack Friday in central China, authorities said. [/QUOTE] This again? They weren’t killed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/25 "2012-12-17T02:04:23Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > there are also mass killings occurring in schools in China? Not a single person was killed in the attack you’re referring to. Guns are vastly more efficient at killing people than knives. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/26 "2012-12-17T02:36:22Z")
It starts with the video games. Next thing you know they’re [reading dime novels, redoing their knickerbockers below the knee, and memorizing jokes from Captain Billy’s Whiz-Bang.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam1fbQmA_s) ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/27 "2012-12-17T03:19:38Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Not a single person was killed in the attack you’re referring to. … there is a question mark at the end of my sentence. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/28 "2012-12-17T03:46:29Z")
[Here you go](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold). Harris was a very advanced Doom player that even created his own levels and distributed them. I recall many articles questioning the violent computer games that were being sold to kids after the Columbine murders. I’m surprised that the media hasn’t already revisited this debate. iirc the debate after Columbine resulted in the current rating system for games. It’s worth pointing out that violent reading material and movies are different from games. You’re a passive spectator in books and movies. You’re an active participant in shooting games. You’re actually stalking and killing your opponents in a shooting game. Todays graphics and computer speed are so many light years beyond the 486 computers that we played Doom on. I can only imagine what graphic clarity the current games bring. I fully agree that a normal, well adjusted teen isn’t going to go psycho from playing games or watching horror films. Our basic values and mores aren’t that easily corrupted. I’m just not so sure about the folks out there that are mentally disturbed already. Aren’t people with Asperger unable to feel or relate normal emotion? They can’t connect with people (including relatives). I wonder how they react to these games and understanding the violence that’s celebrated in them. > [@](#): > > Harris and Klebold linked their personal computers on a network and both played many games over the Internet. Harris created a set of levels for the game Doom, which later became known as the Harris levels. Harris had a web presence under the handle “REB” (short for Rebel, a nod to the nickname of Columbine’s sports teams) and other cyber aliases, including “Rebldomakr”, “Rebdoomer”, and “Rebdomine”, while Klebold went by the names “VoDKa” and “VoDkA”. Harris had various websites that hosted Doom and Quake files, as well as team information for those he gamed with online. The sites openly espoused hatred for the people of their neighborhood and the world in general. When the pair began experimenting with pipe bombs, they posted results of the explosions on the websites. The website was shut down by America Online after the shootings and was preserved for the FBI.[11] > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The OP would help his argument if he could produce evidence that people who go on shooting sprees are more likely to play violent video games than most people their age. > > Please produce it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/29 "2012-12-17T03:57:51Z")
I haven’t read that much about the Joker movie shooter. Other than he’s highly intelligent (PHD student) and obviously crazy. He had an obsession with the new Batman movie and violent Joker character. Has anyone read how active he was in the gaming community? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/30 "2012-12-17T04:08:34Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > there is a question mark at the end of my sentence. Oops. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/31 "2012-12-17T04:10:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > [Here you go](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold). Harris was a very advanced Doom player that even created his own levels and distributed them. I recall many articles questioning the violent computer games that were being sold to kids after the Columbine murders. > > I’m surprised that the media hasn’t already revisited this debate. iirc the debate after Columbine resulted in the current rating system for games. > > It’s worth pointing out that violent reading material and movies are different from games. You’re a passive spectator in books and movies. You’re an active participant in shooting games. You’re actually stalking and killing your opponents in a shooting game. Todays graphics and computer speed are so many light years beyond the 486 computers that we played Doom on. I can only imagine what graphic clarity the current games bring. > > I fully agree that a normal, well adjusted teen isn’t going to go psycho from playing games or watching horror films. Our basic values and mores aren’t that easily corrupted. > > I’m just not so sure about the folks out there that are mentally disturbed already. Aren’t people with Asperger unable to feel or relate normal emotion? They can’t connect with people (including relatives). I wonder how they react to these games and understanding the violence that’s celebrated in them. You’ve produced evidence that one of the spree killers played a lot of violent video games, however, you’ve produced no evidence that the average spree killer plays violent video games more often than males of that age. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/32 "2012-12-17T04:26:23Z")
I’m just not that familiar with the other mass killers. Columbine was considered the worst school shooting up until the one this weekend. I remembered Harris and Klebold because I played Doom myself for a couple years. Never any good at it, but I played. 😉 It would be interesting to profile the backgrounds of the various mass shooters and look for commonality. It might even earn somebody a Masters degree. 😉 Something is going on. Americans have owned guns since the American Revolution. They didn’t walk into movie theaters or schools and just start randomly shooting until the last fifteen years. The abhorrent behavior needs to be studied and hopefully some solution found. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/33 "2012-12-17T04:27:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Can you beat someone to death with a Blu-Ray disc? They couldn’t prove nuffin’! Nearly every teenage male plays violent video games, really next we will be blaming rock and roll for the downfall of our yoof. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/34 "2012-12-17T04:33:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Something is going on. Americans have owned guns since the American Revolution. They didn’t walk into movie theaters or schools and just start randomly shooting until the last fifteen years. The abhorrent behavior needs to be studied and hopefully some solution found. How old is Fox News? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/35 "2012-12-17T05:02:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You’re actually stalking and killing your opponents in a shooting game. No, you’re not. You’re pushing buttons on a computer. And repeatedly calling perfect strangers “gay nazi tryhard noobtube faggot” on voice chat. Well, it seems traditional to do [SIZE=1]the latter, anyway.[/SIZE] ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/36 "2012-12-17T05:06:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Something is going on. Americans have owned guns since the American Revolution. They didn’t walk into movie theaters or schools and just start randomly shooting until the last fifteen years. The abhorrent behavior needs to be studied and hopefully some solution found. [What?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman) ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/37 "2012-12-17T05:12:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m surprised that the media hasn’t already revisited this debate. iirc the debate after Columbine resulted in the current rating system for games. Nope. The current rating system started in 1995, replacing a Sega-only rating system that existed for a brief period. It began as a response to controversy about violent games that included Senate hearings. Well before Columbine. The controversy at that time was over the games themselves and their content, rather than any violence that had occurred. > [@](#): > > It’s worth pointing out that violent reading material and movies are different from games. You’re a passive spectator in books and movies. You’re an active participant in shooting games. You’re actually stalking and killing your opponents in a shooting game. Most shooting games have a plot, and the vast majority of them involve assuming the role of a hero whose actions are justified. Only occasionally will you find a game with moral ambiguity, and even then it’s usually portrayed as a genuine moral dilemma. Either that or it’s satirical. Purely nihilistic shooting sprees are very much not common. I suppose online multiplayer (player vs player) is a bit different, lacking a plot, but those tend to amount to glorified paintball matches. > [@](#): > > I’m just not so sure about the folks out there that are mentally disturbed already. Aren’t people with Asperger unable to feel or relate normal emotion? They can’t connect with people (including relatives). I wonder how they react to these games and understanding the violence that’s celebrated in them. People with Asperger’s have difficulty with social situations, reading body language, and empathy. They still feel normal emotion and aren’t necessarily disturbed. Asperger’s isn’t linked to violent behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/38 "2012-12-17T05:44:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Something is going on. Americans have owned guns since the American Revolution. They didn’t walk into movie theaters or schools and just start randomly shooting until the last fifteen years. The abhorrent behavior needs to be studied and hopefully some solution found. Bwuh? As noted above, see Exhibit A: Charles Whitman. Also, Americans have owned guns since **before** the American Revolution and have been killing other people with them since before the American Revolution, including mass killings. [Here](http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/)’s an LA Times article on only _some_ of the mass shootings over the last 23 years, which is a bit longer than the last 15 years. Several involved schools and children and occurred more than 15 years ago. And, for a more complete list, here’s Wiki’s [list of rampage killers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers#Americas), which is probably not complete but a nice way to show that such killers are, by no means, a new phenomenon. For kicks, one of the wiki [links](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers#School_massacres) goes to mass killings at schools, of which the largest body count occurred in 1927. That said, mass killings earlier than the 20th century are going to be harder to find, partly because widespread dissemination of news is a relatively new thing. Actually the Jonesboro school shootings (Bono, actually, which led to some interesting fire drills for those of us in high school in AR at the time) was blamed on “Beavis and Butthead”, rather than video games. The idea that the show was responsible is now quite laughable. So again, you’re going to have to provide some actual cites or studies that show any connection between video games and mass shootings. I’m going to put your assertion above in the “Brain Fart” category, because it’s just obviously and laughably wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/39 "2012-12-17T06:08:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m just not that familiar with the other mass killers. Ah, translation: when you made the below comment you were talking out of your ass. > [@](#): > > **aceplace57** > I guess we need to discuss the elephant in the debate room. Violent shooter games have been a glaring problem ever since Columbine.\*\* It seems like nearly every mass shooter since has also been a heavy gamer and especially shooter games.\*\* Thanks for admitting that you really didn’t know what you were talking about when you posted the OP. It is refreshing to hear people admit it. > [@](#): > > **aceplace57** > Columbine was considered the worst school shooting up until the one this weekend. No, it wasn’t. Virginia Tech was significantly worse and the killer there was not known as a big video game player. Look, if you were just trying to parody some of the people calling for gun control following the tragedy just admit it because otherwise the only thing you’ve succeeded in doing was making yourself look quite foolish because you’ve ranted about how most spree killers were video game junkies and yet have refused to produce any evidence to support such a claim and have conceded you’re not even familiar with any and are relying on vague memories of Harris. Using your logic because Harris enjoyed bowling we should assume that most spree killers were avid bowlers and ban bowling. At least that is if you were being forthright in your OP as opposed to just trying to rather clumsily parody some gun control arguments. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/40 "2012-12-17T06:39:26Z")
Computer games have always been controversial. Someone above reminded me of the Senate hearings on the issue in the 90’s. There’s a reason the games have ratings on the box. I made a point in the OP to say that a normal, well adjusted person isn’t going to go psycho after watching a movie or playing a violent game. I’ve repeated that a couple times now. I do think there’s a _possibility_ of a connection between disturbed people and these games. It’s something that should be studied and considered. It’s not just the content of the game. It’s the entire anti-social lifestyle. Living alone, no friends, and basically letting your avatar become your identity. It needs to be studied. That’s all I’m saying. I personally don’t think the majority of Americans should have their freedoms taken away by a few mass murderers. Whether it’s the freedom to buy and play a violent game, watch a slasher movie, or own a gun. I wasn’t trying to make fun of the anti-gun argument. I’m simply pointing out there’s people out there that feel the same way about violent movies, games and yes even some modern comics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=3)