# Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to ban violent computer shooter games? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210 "2012-12-16T19:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/41 "2012-12-17T07:15:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I do think there’s a _possibility_ of a connection between disturbed people and these games. It’s something that should be studied and considered. It has been studied and considered. That’s why we know it’s total crap. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/42 "2012-12-17T07:39:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s not just the content of the game. It’s the entire anti-social lifestyle. Living alone, no friends, and basically letting your avatar become your identity. Your impression about video games, particularly modern ones, their associated “lifestyle”, and your caricature of gamers is ridiculous and condescending. You do know that video games have been multiplayer more or less since their invention, right? Did you ever step foot in a mall in the 90’s without seeing a video arcade? Have you ever heard of a LAN party? Gaming was a shared interest that connected me with the only real friends I made in high school - friendships that have lasted 15+ years now. Modern games make it even easier to connect with other people, and its particularly ironic that you claim, posting under an alias on an internet message board, that “letting your avatar become your identity” is a problematic aspect of gaming. ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/43 "2012-12-17T07:41:52Z")
Well I’m pretty sure kids are playing these games in the UK too. So look elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/44 "2012-12-17T07:42:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m surprised that the media hasn’t already revisited this debate. They realized years ago that it’s moronic. Perhaps in part that’s because a lot of young journalists grew up playing these games and haven’t murdered anybody, and the kids they grew up playing them with haven’t murdered anybody either. > [@](#): > > iirc the debate after Columbine resulted in the current rating system for games. You do not remember correctly. > [@](#): > > It’s worth pointing out that violent reading material and movies are different from games. You’re a passive spectator in books and movies. You’re an active participant in shooting games. You’re actually stalking and killing your opponents in a shooting game. The killing is still imaginary, though, and only people with serious problems (problems more severe than Asperger’s or loneliness) can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. You can imagine something in a book as vividly or even more vividly than something you see in a video game, and we know that a few crazy people have committed murder based on books and movies or music. Kids - let’s face it, mostly boys - have always played pretend violent games and people have always enjoyed entertainment with violence in it. That was the case long before there were computers. The idea that somehow video games are making this problem worse because the graphics have gotten really good is just absurd; it focuses on trivial similarities while missing the obvious bigger picture: humans have always found pretend violence entertaining, but most people understand where to stop the fantasy. A small proportion of people are violent and crazy. It’s not because of entertainment. > [@](#): > > Aren’t people with Asperger unable to feel or relate normal emotion? Asperger’s patients struggle to recognize emotions and social cues in other people. People who can’t feel emotion are psychopaths. _Small_ difference there. > [@](#): > > I wonder how they react to these games and understanding the violence that’s celebrated in them. Asperger’s isn’t associated with violence. My understanding is that kids with much more severe forms of autism can get violent (out of frustration, for example), but that doesn’t have anything to do with video games. As noted, people with conditions like these are much more likely to be bullied than to shoot up a school. If the Connecticut shooter had Asperger’s, I suspect he also had some other more severe psychological problems. But I don’t know if we’ll ever find out what those were. Meanwhile we have not heard if this guy was into FPS games, and I have not seen any report that says the Aurora shooter played them either. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/45 "2012-12-17T09:03:46Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Two of the more popular video game franchises have been the Mario Brothers games and the Pac Man games. How many kids have gone running down the hallway jumping on people or trying to eat them? > > Tens of millions of copies of violent first person shooter games have been sold, and there have been billions of hours of play time. If there was any measurable responsibility, the world would be a bullet-riddled, blood-soaked wasteland. If you say “Yeah, well, some people don’t have guns”, I would point out that every 1st-person shooter includes the knife or crowbar as option 1. See, there is the problem - in Eve Online, I fly mining ships and an occasional Armageddon. Until they come up with mining ships or armageddons, I guess I won’t be able to unleash my inner demons. Well, in the other MMORPGs I tend to play warlocks/mages/loremasters. Until I can have my demon familiar and a magic wand, the kiddys are also safe from me. [what are they, level 1 humans?] ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/46 "2012-12-17T10:16:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s not just the content of the game. It’s the entire anti-social lifestyle. Living alone, no friends, and basically letting your avatar become your identity. … just how old and out of touch \*are \*you ? Ye gods. I haven’t heard the word “avatar” used in earnest since the mid-90s. If you’re taking the piss however, good show. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/47 "2012-12-17T14:48:48Z")
No. Video games are fantasies, same as movies, or books. What need to do is create better protections and access for the mentally unstable, and make firearms more difficult to access by the same. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/48 "2012-12-17T15:03:17Z")
While my heart goes out to all those effected by the heinous and senseless actions of a psycho in Newtown, I have to ask how anyone from politicians to the everyman can have a straight face discussion about something like banning violent video games as the first (over)reaction to a crime where some crazy person commits a crime and happened to play games. Every year almost 10,000 people die as a direct result of drunk driving - [cite](http://www.madd.org/statistics/) these include children and families that result in up to 500x more deaths and many times these “killers” are repeat offenders. Yet I hear no one talk about going back to prohibition, why? For every “violent” video game played there are countless, similarly violent movies. Why are we not having discussions about banning these movies? Why are we not looking into the movies he watched in the last 6 months? Maybe he listened to violent music (welcome back to 90s gansta rap controversies). The fact is some nut jobs are just that and the media they watch, music they listen to, games they play and food they ate are NOT the issue. The kid was a psycho, simple and plain and if he got hit by a bus or “offed” himself prior to these events the world would be a better place. I can only imagine [Jack Thompson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_%28activist%29) grinning ear to ear right now… but video games? People want an excuse and a reason, but this is not it. ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/49 "2012-12-17T15:03:33Z")
Since no one has mentioned it already, I think OP should watch the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on video games. Real good stuff. The first time I watched it, the ending just left me in silence for like…2 minutes straight. [This appears to be the full episode on YouTube, but I have no way to check it right now.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaF9nbLo8as) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/50 "2012-12-17T15:22:25Z")
FYI, there are active threads about both violent video games and drunk driving. As I post this, the former is immediately above this thread. Reported as a redundant thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/51 "2012-12-17T15:24:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > FYI, there are active threads about both violent video games and drunk driving. Neither was posted as a serious argument however; they are both pro-gun “gotcha” threads. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/52 "2012-12-17T16:14:20Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > …hardly a movie is made without guns used in a threatening or lethal manner, and in 90% of those, the gun wielder is the glamorous or laudable hero. Got cites for the percentages of movies featuring: “guns used in a threatening or lethal manner” and “the gun wielder is the glamorous or laudable hero” or is your post your cite? ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/53 "2012-12-17T16:32:24Z")
I think we have a greater obligation. That is we need to become a nation in which no one wants to purchase first person shooter games. We need to become a nation where mindless violence isn’t admired and glorified. We need to be nation where jingoism no longer matters. We need to become nation where every soldier isn’t automatically a hero. We went to see Lincoln Saturday night and watching the previews, the ridiculous adulation of gun violence was never more apparent. I doubt I was the only person in the theater cringing while watching golden shell casings spiraling in slow motion out of a semi-automatic weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/54 "2012-12-17T16:36:25Z")
> [@Burton](#): > > I think we have a greater obligation. That is we need to become a nation in which no one wants to purchase first person shooter games. I’d move to Canada! (Where, interestingly enough, many first person shooter games are developed). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/55 "2012-12-17T16:43:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m simply pointing out there’s people out there that feel the same way about violent movies, games and yes even some modern comics. We call these people whack-a-doodles. Me, I’m outraged that while every school shooter has been caught using shoes, no one has the balls to even comment on the obvious shoes-gun violence connection. Your move, lamestream media! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/56 "2012-12-17T16:44:43Z")
> [@Burton](#): > > I think we have a greater obligation. That is we need to become a nation in which no one wants to purchase first person shooter games. We need to become a nation where mindless violence isn’t admired and glorified. Good luck with that, as it’s not limited to our nation, or even this century. As humans, we’ve glorified violence for millennia. To be sure, it’s only been gun violence for the last century and a half, but little boys have been playing some version of Hero Astronaut, Cowboy, Knight Errant, or other violent heroic figure since pre-history. All the oldest examples of surviving literature that I can think of are of this form. Come to think of it, we’ve improved slightly over the centuries. Gilgamesh, Beowulf, heroes of Greek myth, Biblical heroes, and most other BCE heroic figures are actually dicks. It’s a relatively modern thing that violent heroes serve a greater purpose like saving the world (or their small part of it) with little to no consideration for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/57 "2012-12-17T16:49:41Z")
Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? If not - if a “fuck little children to death” video game wouldn’t be okay, or a “sexually abuse women until they’re bloody” game, or a “hunt the [racial type here]” game, or a “cut living animals open and let them run around dragging their guts” game… describe where the line is between these and the plethora of games where you can pick up increasingly large guns and blow the shit out of virtual people. I think this is a reasonable question, given the discussion. If you want to wrap yourself in 2ndAm religious garments and call me names, save everyone the trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/58 "2012-12-17T16:54:12Z")
I understand that and I also understand we are making progress. But perhaps we can do better. I played with guns as a kid, you rarely see that these days, yet now kids are using very immersive technology to act out these fantasies and they have less moral distinction than they could. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/59 "2012-12-17T16:57:44Z")
Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? [/QUOTE] Every time this discussion comes up, the comparison to movies or books has to be made. Are there books and movies that feature these subjects? Most surely. Are they more than a handful of all movies or books ever created? Absolutely not. > [@NitroPress](#): > > I think this is a reasonable question, given the discussion. If you want to wrap yourself in 2ndAm religious garments and call me names, save everyone the trouble. 1st Amendment dearie. “Free Speech” is enshrined in the 1st Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/60 "2012-12-17T16:59:01Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? You are creating a straw man argument. The actual argument isn’t about defending an individual’s right to partake of violent media but how responsible that violent media is for a maniac’s behavior. The answer is nil. Besides that, yes, I am defending an individual’s right to partake of media we, as a society, have deemed legal or permissible. Ever hear about the Grand Theft Auto series of games? Clearly, there are limits, but those are limits we set as a society. As a society, we have stated that games and other media featuring gun violence are acceptable to a certain point. We also, as a society, have deemed it in the best interests of our society not to allow games to be sold publicly which feature graphic acts of violence (sexual or not) against children or graphic examples of rapes or other acts we deem against the best interests of our society. Obviously, recent matters have our society questioning those limits, which is a healthy thing, but that’s rather besides the point of whether or not such media is a primary cause of antisocial behavior. As noted repeatedly in this thread, people once said the same thing about comic books, television, the internet, dime novels (e.g. pulp fiction), rock and roll, and most other forms of media. And people were universally wrong about all of those. > [@Burton](#): > > I played with guns as a kid, you rarely see that these days, Really? Not here in Texas. Kids playing with pretend guns is still pretty common. Obviously they don’t play with guns that look like the real thing anymore (since some unfortunate incidents involving the police), but play guns are as popular as ever. And considering the prevalence of school kids taking weapons to school (multiples times this year, in fact), obviously kids playing with real guns isn’t rare, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=4)