# Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to ban violent computer shooter games? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210 "2012-12-16T19:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/61 "2012-12-17T16:59:04Z")
> [@Burton](#): > > I understand that and I also understand we are making progress. But perhaps we can do better. I played with guns as a kid, you rarely see that these days, yet now kids are using very immersive technology to act out these fantasies and they have less moral distinction than they could. Airsoft… Nerf Guns… Paintball… kids play with a lot of guns nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/62 "2012-12-17T17:03:46Z")
Did you know that there’s a direct correlation between the decline of Spirograph and the rise in gang activity? ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/63 "2012-12-17T17:04:51Z")
A little off topic, but I’m always amused by folks who admit to buying games and immediately cheating to make the game easy, then later complain it was boring. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/64 "2012-12-17T17:13:13Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? This isn’t really analogous to most games though, where in most FPS you are the good guy according to the plot shooting at hostile entities that are shooting at you. In answer to your questions, no I’d have no issue with a hypothetical game containing one or more of those elements, as long as it was R rated (yeah, a vaguely tech-aware kid could still get their hands on it, but the same’s true of porno or movies of RL violence) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/65 "2012-12-17T19:05:08Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? First of all, yes, movies, books, and games on all of those subjects should be legally protected, and attempts to ban any of them are, at best, badly misguided. Secondly, define “extreme” for me. What qualifies a movie as “extreme virtual gun violence?” Are you going strictly by body count, or degree of realism in the effect of gunshots on a person? Is _Saving Private Ryan_ an example of extreme virtual gun violence? Certainly, they show a lot of people being killed with guns, and a lot of the deaths are extremely graphic. Should this film be banned? If not, how do you justify keeping this film, but suppressing (say) _Pulp Fiction_, which is both less graphic, and has a much lower body count? (I’m making a bit of a leap there in assuming that _Pulp Fiction_ is the sort of thing you think should be banned. Apologies if I’m wrong, feel free to suggest a counter-example of your choice.) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/66 "2012-12-17T19:13:36Z")
Unlike guns, which kill people, violent video games do not kill people. So no, we don’t have an obligation to look at ways to ban violent video games ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/67 "2012-12-17T19:38:36Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > …hardly a movie is made without guns used in a threatening or lethal manner, and in 90% of those, the gun wielder is the glamorous or laudable hero. > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Got cites for the percentages of movies featuring: > “guns used in a threatening or lethal manner” > and > “the gun wielder is the glamorous or laudable hero” > or is your post your cite? Since you’re not going to provide any back-up for these assertions, I will speculate that “hardly a movie” and “90%” are imaginary statistics you pulled from thin air to give a poorly-grounded argument the whiff of respectibility. Not that you are necessarily wrong, but your “make up facts as you go along” style makes it hard to take you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/68 "2012-12-17T19:42:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Found a list of popular First Person Shooter Games on a retail site. The descriptions pretty much say it all. Extreme violence with an emphasis on mass murder. > > Yes, I now the majority of people know the difference in avatars and reality. > > But what about a social awkward, autistic teen, with no friends and no hobbies except these games? What is this teaching the disturbed kids that we know are out there in society? > > [http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?platform=5&category=First-Person+Shooters](http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?platform=5&category=First-Person+Shooters) > > The games put the concept of mass murder into these disturbed peoples minds. The school shooter may have simply shot his mom because he was angry. What gave him the idea to wander down the hallways shooting 6 year old kids? There is not a game I know of in existence where the object is to gun down kids. I fully believe there is no correlation whatsoever between video game violence and real life violence, but regardless, it is the responsibility of the parents of the socially awkward, autistic teen with no friends and no hobbies to keep him away from these games, not society’s. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/69 "2012-12-17T19:52:32Z")
I’ve played FPS games since **Wolfenstein 3d** and I can state with almost 100% certainty that the only people I’ve shot in games were those trying to kill me, who were packing guns themselves, or were zombies. As such, if I’m ever up against gun-toting Nazi jihadist zombies, you can damn well bet I’m trained and prepared. School-kids? Not so much. Games do not produce child-killers, but some child-killers play games. Guns do not make murderers, but some murderers use guns. Muslims are not terrorists, but some terrorists are Muslims. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/70 "2012-12-17T20:57:27Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > There is not a game I know of in existence where the object is to gun down kids. Painkiller: Battle Out of Hell. There you go. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/71 "2012-12-17T21:09:01Z")
I’ve merged **chargerrich** ’s post into this thread (post 48) as well as replies by **John Mace** and **Der Trihs**. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/72 "2012-12-17T21:14:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > [Here you go](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold). Harris was a very advanced Doom player that even created his own levels and distributed them. I recall many articles questioning the violent computer games that were being sold to kids after the Columbine murders. May I ask how old you are? Because, seriously, who didn’t create their own Doom levels back in the day? The only reason I didn’t is because our household had a Mac. (I made Marathon levels instead.) I’m guessing you’re from a generation that didn’t grow up with video games, and still sees them as “new and weird”. They’re not. You probably made your own Dungeons and Dragons campaign or maybe drew your own superhero comics; we made our own Doom levels and mods. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/73 "2012-12-17T21:21:00Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? Child abuse violence? Child-focused sexual violence? Dogfighting? Racial-focused violence? How about [The Dolcett Archives](http://www.necrobabes.org/dolcett/)? Those type of cartoons are legal, and as I vaguely remember I once ran across animated cartoons of some of them. There are all sorts of animated and filmed porn online that come damned close to illegal, and some Japanese animated cartoons are pretty much child porn - young girls and tentacles … or one seen at a con young girl tied to a chair and a Nazi zombie. Heck, Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards had Larry patronizing hookers. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/74 "2012-12-17T21:29:25Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Painkiller: Battle Out of Hell. > > There you go. _Doom 3_ had babies, too. I think I remember _Dante’s Inferno_ having baby enemies as well. But in either case they were unrepentant assholes. GoddamnedBats all the way, with unnerving sound effects to boot. … so, not entirely unlike real babies 😃 [SIZE=2]ETA: Though in neither case would I say killing them was the _object_ of the game. They just got in your way and freaked you the fuck out. Once again, not entirely unlike… 🙂 [/SIZE] ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/75 "2012-12-18T01:09:00Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > Fascinating how many will step up to defend the individual right to wade in extreme virtual gun violence (movies, books, games). Do all of you doing so also defend the parallel right of individuals to immerse themselves in extreme virtual rape violence? As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult who shows the proper respect for the well being of the other participants. > [@](#): > > I think this is a reasonable question, given the discussion. If you want to wrap yourself in 2ndAm religious garments and call me names, save everyone the trouble. _Real_ gun violence can be morally and legally justified - such as when it is in the defence of the innocent against an aggressor - so simulated gun violence against imaginary people can’t be any worse than that. None of your other examples are comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/76 "2012-12-18T01:42:22Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Since you’re not going to provide any back-up for these assertions, I will speculate that “hardly a movie” and “90%” are imaginary statistics you pulled from thin air to give a poorly-grounded argument the whiff of respectibility. > > Not that you are necessarily wrong, but your “make up facts as you go along” style makes it hard to take you seriously. Even if what he’s saying is true about most movies glorifying violence it’s a bit weird to say they lead to crime since violent movies and video games are vastly more prevalent in Japan than the US withTout a comparable amount of crime. For example, in 2008, the US had 12,000 hand gun homicides while Japan had just 11(no that’s not a misprint). That was also not an off year for Japan. In 2002, they had just 2. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/77 "2012-12-18T01:45:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > _Doom 3_ had babies, too. I think I remember _Dante’s Inferno_ having baby enemies as well. But in either case they were unrepentant assholes. GoddamnedBats all the way, with unnerving sound effects to boot. The babies in Doom 3 had wings, were actually Satan’s minions and are actively trying to eat your flesh. Are are creepy as all git-out. :eek: Their childish laugh before attacking is chilling. ---
**Author:** ![damagedgoods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@damagedgoods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damagedgoods)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/78 "2012-12-18T18:33:23Z")
Are you really serious? I know this is gb but it seems you are solid on the “let’s ban”. d-wagon.Nothing but pure insanity causes people to go off & snap off & let a few round’s go in a crowded school.And “since” Columbine ? I must assume you must be alittle young as this Debate goes back to non-electronic gaming (D&D).Banning everything tangable is the only way to stop mass-killing’s.But then I suppose we’d have to deal with the “should we chop off hand’s so people can’t blug…” Wait everything’s banned.How can we…???Anyway,I’m off to see my shrink right after I finnish watching this episode of ‘The Walking Dead’. Then off to the gun store,gotta get 'cple x-tra mag’s for my AR in case I have A hard time shooting the x-mas turkey.BYE ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/79 "2012-12-18T18:35:50Z")
You’d get more traction for banning video games if you argued they cause our precious children (the future!) to become fat asocial losers. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210/80 "2012-12-18T18:37:50Z")
Hey ! I resent the implication. I’m \*not \*fat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-ban-violent-computer-shooter-games/644210.md?page=5)