# Don't we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871 "2012-11-23T04:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/181 "2012-12-06T22:22:47Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Furthermore, gun OWNERSHIP is very common in Canada (one in four households nationwide and well above a majority among many broad geographic or demographic slices), irrespective of the somewhat more restrictive paths to doing so legally than in the U.S. So it becomes even less clear what the magic difference is supposed to be regarding guns per se, and more obvious that other factors are affecting murder and crime rates. Yes, but when it comes to “handgun ownership” it’s a completely different story. It is extremely difficult in Canada for private individuals to own handguns. Considering that the overwhelming majority of gun-related deaths in the US are due to handguns, that’s obviously a pretty significant difference. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/182 "2012-12-06T22:49:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, but when it comes to “handgun ownership” it’s a completely different story. > > It is extremely difficult in Canada for private individuals to own handguns. > > Considering that the overwhelming majority of gun-related deaths in the US are due to handguns, that’s obviously a pretty significant difference. As **Clothahump** patiently explained, the obvious way to reduce Canada’s already lower incidence of gun violence to zero is to introduce lots and lots and lots more handguns for everyone, everywhere, at all times. And I bet more beer would help too, if that’s even possible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/183 "2012-12-06T23:29:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, but when it comes to “handgun ownership” it’s a completely different story. > > It is extremely difficult in Canada for private individuals to own handguns. > > Considering that the overwhelming majority of gun-related deaths in the US are due to handguns, that’s obviously a pretty significant difference. Actually, most of the gun related deaths in the USA are suicides. However, it is true that of the 10000 or so homicides caused by guns, somewhere between 60-80% involve handguns, varying by year and definitions. Anti-gun dudes routinely include the 15000-20000 suicides as “gun violence’ but IMHO, suicide is not a crime, but a right. What is amazing here is the level of ignorance by the anti-gunners. Not only are they ignorant, but they are _willfully_ ignorant, and what is most amazing- _proud_ of their ignorance. “All I know is that guns are eviiiiil!!!”. It’s similar to the Fundie arguments about evolution. “All I know is what’s in the Bible, and I ain’t descended from no monkey!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/184 "2012-12-14T22:44:40Z")
_cough_ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/185 "2012-12-15T07:31:49Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It might interest you to know that Great Britain, which is culturally much closer to Canada than the U.S. is… This is a preposterous statement. I assure you that whatever might have been true in 1815, Canadians culturally far, far closer to the United States than to the UK. The USA feels a lot like Canada to me. England, though, was a foreign country. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/186 "2012-12-15T13:05:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes. \*\*Clearly you know nothing about collecting rare firearms. \*\* > Perhaps you can tell these well known museums that they can collect ‘replicas’, not actual rare historical firearms > [http://www.hillcountrymagazine.com/issues/summer-2012/273/rare-gun-collection-on-display-at-brownwood-museum-guns-of-the-empire-exhibit-runs-through-december/](http://www.hillcountrymagazine.com/issues/summer-2012/273/rare-gun-collection-on-display-at-brownwood-museum-guns-of-the-empire-exhibit-runs-through-december/) > [http://shelburnemuseum.org/pressroom/shelburne-museum-acquires-rare-vermont-firearms-collection/](http://shelburnemuseum.org/pressroom/shelburne-museum-acquires-rare-vermont-firearms-collection/) > > [http://www.si.edu/ofg/Units/sorsnmah.htm](http://www.si.edu/ofg/Units/sorsnmah.htm) > Yes. \*\*Clearly you know nothing about modern wildlife control. \*\* > > [Hunting on U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Lands and Waters | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service](http://www.fws.gov/hunting/) > > _The Service recognizes that in many cases, hunting is an important tool for wildlife management. Hunting gives resource managers a valuable tool to control populations of some species that might otherwise exceed the carrying capacity of their habitat and threaten the well-being of other wildlife species, and in some instances, that of human health and safety._ > > [http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20013034441.html;jsessionid=72CCAF84BFF881201144A244D80FB6D6](http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20013034441.html;jsessionid=72CCAF84BFF881201144A244D80FB6D6) > > \*We conclude that to control deer populations across broad landscapes, many wildlife agencies will have to adopt hunting regulations that are robust to 3 conditions: decrease in hunter numbers, increase in refugia that limit hunter access to deer, and increase in importance of urban and suburban areas as elements of deer range. To stabilize or reduce the high-density deer populations currently existing across much of white-tailed deer range, regulations need to give hunters incentives to shoot antlerless deer voluntarily or simply require them to do so. It is likely that comprehensive population control programmes of the future will combine general recreational hunting regimes that promote great per-hunter harvests of antlerless deer across broad scales with complementary, site-specific, highly regulated hunts and programs to diminish the effects of refugia created by hunting-access limitations.\*[http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x1305079157/Experts-call-deer-overpopulation-a-growing-problem](http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x1305079157/Experts-call-deer-overpopulation-a-growing-problem) > > Yes. \*\*Clearly you know nothing about court ruling about the duty of the police. \*\*[Warren v. District of Columbia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia) > > [South v. Maryland | 59 U.S. 396 (1855) | Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center](http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/59/396/case.html) > > \*\*Clearly you know nothing about the dangers of secondhand smoke. \*\* > [http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic\_information/secondhand\_smoke/](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/secondhand_smoke/) > People are not killing THEMSELVES with second hand smoke. If you believe society’s obligation to facilitate something as frivolous as gun collecting and hunting, is equivalent to its obligation to reduce easy access to weapons that allow killings like the one you had yesterday, your priorities are messed up. And no, your points on hunting being essential to control wildlife populations are not convincing. Ecosystems balance themselves just fine without human involvement. And in the rare case that human involvement is essential, I’m positive our ingenuity will come up with ways to kill animals that do not require widespread dissemination of guns. As for not being aware of the court ruling on police, I freely admit that I do not know about it. But why do you consider that to be static and unchanging? If society decides that part of its obligations are to reduce gun violence by reducing guns, it must also decide part of its obligations are to try and fill what legitimate gaps this causes. On the smoking issue, I have no clue why you’re having difficulty understanding my position. People smoke. This is bad for them and imposes certain costs on society. Society does try and increase the cost to the smokers through taxes, but allows them to smoke. howver, smoking is also bad for people around them. This is why, in much of the developed (and now even developing) world, smoking in public places is BANNED. > [@Lumpy](#): > > That’s a very modern liberal mantra which has the small defect of being 180-degrees opposed to everything the US was supposedly founded on. A government monopoly on force was held to be the very definition of tyranny. It’s more what Thomas Hobbes advocated than the thinkers of the Enlightenment. If you think that there isn’t already a government monopoly on force, you’re kidding yourself. All guns allow you to do is make things worse. > [@](#): > > I stand by what I said: even outnumbered four to one with equal weapons, I’d rather we all had guns- an aggressor would have to face the real possibility of getting shot, whereas with any other weapons they can expect to be effectively invulnerable. In fact if we all had full-auto submachine guns the odds against the invaders would be even worse- they can only kill me once, I could conceivably get them all. And I stand by what I said. The only situation in which the best response is to whip out a gun is in a B-movie. > [@](#): > > Someone relating the truth of what actually happened to them when the country they lived in banned guns is “propaganda”? Even the MOST charitable interpretation I can come up with for that is anecdotal evidence. And if you can’t see that article is propaganda, there isn’t much sense in continuing to talk to you, and I will not. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I find it hard to believe in the extreme that there will ever be enough police officers to take care of all crime even in the case where gun possession is down to a tenth of what it is now (which I find unlikely even in the case of a total ban). It’s never been the case that there are enough police able to respond to stop all crime. > > Case in point, where I grew up, there is exactly one local police officer to cover three towns. He’s in general (if he’s not already busy) 10 minutes away from my parent’s home running a speed trap. The nearest state police and the county sheriff are 20 minutes away. What exactly are they to do if an armed criminal breaks in, even if he’s got a kitchen knife rather than a gun? They’re both in their 60s and slowing down. Get theft insurance, call the cops, lock themselves into the bedroom. And if they must have guns, I expect there are guns available that cannot be concealed or reloaded quickly - long barreled shotguns, old style rifles. Allow those. > [@](#): > > Most violent crimes in that area, despite the abundance of guns, are committed with bats and fists in any case. Guns, offensively or defensively, are rarely involved despite a high per-capita gun ownership. You realise you’re not making the case for gun ownership any stronger here? > [@](#): > > In point of fact, we ARE (due to previous over-trapping and over-hunting of predators) in a situation where certain game animals will overwhelm the local ecosystem if not hunted–white-tail deer in particular are like that. In my state, the game commission releases enough hunting licenses and prices them according to the number of deer deaths necessary to reach an equilibrium population (in the absence of coyotes and wolves, both of which are effectively non-existent in the state and are a fair hazard to rural folks where they do exist) Are you claiming the only way to deal with this problem is the way it is being dealt with currently? > [@](#): > > Not to mention the simple fact of the matter that I know more than a dozen people who’ve had a black bear get in through their screen door or window into their kitchen. 300-400lbs of ursine doesn’t leave readily, and animal control is (you guessed it) at least 20 minutes away, if they’re ready right then and there. Can you cite for me how many people were killed by wildlife in the US? And how much wildlife was killed in self defence? > [@](#): > > It’s clear to me that you haven’t actually thought about the problems of your total-ban stance with regard to the realities of rural America. While it may have sounded like I am an advocate of a total ban, I’m not really. Guns that fulfill certain criteria which makes gun violence ‘excludable’ at least to some extent are ok in my book. If the guns are large and difficult to conceal. If they’re difficult to reload quickly. If they’re difficult to obtain and keep, and not allowed in public spaces - say - outside your home. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeping\_Synapse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Sleeping\_Synapse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeping_Synapse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/187 "2012-12-15T14:14:17Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Don’t we have an obligation as a society to look at ways to curb gun violence? Well, do you feel your gun lust in someway, even of only infinitesimally so, contributes to such massacres as is the topic _du jour_? If so, the answer is obvious. If not, stand fast, idio… **solider**. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/188 "2012-12-15T15:10:08Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Even the MOST charitable interpretation I can come up with for that is anecdotal evidence. And if you can’t see that article is propaganda, there isn’t much sense in continuing to talk to you, and I will not. You remind me of western communists in the '20s and '30s. When some of them visited the Soviet Union to see the Worker’s Utopia for themselves and came back with horror stories of repression, starvation, mass arrests and executions, the stay at homes accused them of having turned traitor and slandering the revolution. Third opinion wanted: is the article I linked to “propaganda” or not? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/189 "2012-12-15T15:50:41Z")
> [@Sleeping\_Synapse](#): > > Well, do you feel your gun lust in someway, even of only infinitesimally so, contributes to such massacres as is the topic _du jour_? > > If so, the answer is obvious. If not, stand fast, idio… **solider**. First off, the OP says he is in favor of sensible restrictions on guns, so he probably agrees with you and this is unnecessary. Second, the commentary about gun lust is well poisoning. And third, you’re not allowed to insult other posters in this forum (and that’s an insult even if you pretending to trail off and substitute a different word). Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/190 "2012-12-15T16:10:14Z")
Oops, confused this with another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/191 "2012-12-15T17:45:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > So, it’s not hand guns that are to blame; it’s the poor and the black. > > This [graph](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg) shows the amount of homicides in the US and the weapon of choice. Honestly, I don’t understand the rationale here to blame this on anything but the availability of hand guns. How is it possible to be in such denial, and why? [The graph on this page](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm) shows homicides in the US by race. Black people commit murder at a rate that is 700% higher than white people. You keep Comparing Canada to the United States as if they are similar culturally. They are not. Canada did not allow slavery. The United States did. The consequences created a disenfranchised subculture which has had a consistently higher rate of murder. And you keep stating that people are killed by guns. Guns do not murder people. They are a convenient tool for accomplishing the act of murder but are not the cause. They are inanimate objects and can be easily substituted by the use of a knife or for that matter, a ball point pen in the eye. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/192 "2012-12-15T19:01:49Z")
> [@nion](#): > > It drives me nuts that there is this prevalent belief that anyone should be able to get anything because freedom. > > Hunting rifles? Okay, fine. Handguns? No. You don’t need them for self defense if nobody else gets to have them either. Get a damned baseball bat if you are that worried. > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but the UK only allows hunting rifles with a license, correct? You don’t hear about rampant gun crimes, or pining for access to semi-automatics. At least I don’t. > > Perhaps it’s time to (mostly) disarm the extremists? Baseball bats? Try tasers. They allow a small unfit person to defend themselves from a large fit person. As does pepper spray. Nonlethal self defense is the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/193 "2012-12-15T19:15:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You keep Comparing Canada to the United States as if they are similar culturally. They are not. Canada did not allow slavery. The United States did. The consequences created a disenfranchised subculture which has had a consistently higher rate of murder. We call that disenfranchised culture “Aboriginals.” The murder rate in ten times higher than the rest of the population. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/194 "2012-12-15T23:21:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Baseball bats? Try tasers. They allow a small unfit person to defend themselves from a large fit person. As does pepper spray. Nonlethal self defense is the way to go. The problem is that nonlethal self defense methods often don’t work. That’s why the police don’t rely solely on them (although they do use them when they can). Alas, the Star Trek “phaser on stun” hasn’t been invented yet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/195 "2012-12-16T01:20:23Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > The problem is that nonlethal self defense methods often don’t work. That’s why the police don’t rely solely on them (although they do use them when they can). Alas, the Star Trek “phaser on stun” hasn’t been invented yet. and the worst POS handgun has a range that far outstrips pepper spray or a taser. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/196 "2012-12-16T01:28:54Z")
IMHO, the debate comes down to this- Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?: “Regardless of whether it’s a violation of the rights of lawful gun owners or not, guns must be restricted because the harm that a single madman can do with one is simply intolerable.” Those who agree take the position that the solution is restricting firearms. Those who disagree take the position that the solution is more people able to defend themselves against an armed criminal or madman. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/197 "2012-12-16T01:58:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > IMHO, the debate comes down to this- Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?: > > “Regardless of whether it’s a violation of the rights of lawful gun owners or not, guns must be restricted because the harm that a single madman can do with one is simply intolerable.” > > Those who agree take the position that the solution is restricting firearms. Those who disagree take the position that the solution is more people able to defend themselves against an armed criminal or madman. I disagree because the problem is not the tool used to kill people and it’s ineffectual to remove the tool in question. This has been demonstrated over and over again in places with the most restrictive gun laws. I’m not a gun advocate per se nor do I own a gun. ---
**Author:** ![leroff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dec6dc/32.png) [@leroff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leroff)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/198 "2012-12-16T02:21:50Z")
Yes we should have these conversations as long as we are looking for methods in addition to gun control to curb the violence. I am not a gun lover nor do I own a gun, but I think we need to be very careful when we start talking about curbing constitutionally granted rights. ``` Seems that violence doesn't come from the gun but from unstable, frighteningly demonic minds. But what can you expect? Americans seem to enjoy violence. The most popular movies are always rife with killing, war, and horrendous crash. Not to mention diabolical plots to wipe out humanity. Americans are the first to turn to thoughts of war when we think we have been wronged. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran. What we need to do is to take stock of ourselves and our values and to start to teach and act with civility. Until we change and to teach ourselves that each and everyone of us has the right to exist with dignity, we will undoubtedly continue to kill each other - regardless of restrictive guns laws. We need to take positive steps to monitor those in our society who are struggling with life. We need to ensure that professional care is at hand and that taking advantage of it is not a negative stigma. We need to care about each other and to teach our children the same. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/199 "2012-12-16T02:24:41Z")
> [@leroff](#): > > Yes we should have these conversations as long as we are looking for methods in addition to gun control to curb the violence. I am not a gun lover nor do I own a gun, but I think we need to be very careful when we start talking about curbing constitutionally granted rights. > > ``` > Seems that violence doesn't come from the gun but from unstable, frighteningly demonic minds. But what can you expect? Americans seem to enjoy violence. The most popular movies are always rife with killing, war, and horrendous crash. Not to mention diabolical plots to wipe out humanity. Americans are the first to turn to thoughts of war when we think we have been wronged. Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran. > > What we need to do is to take stock of ourselves and our values and to start to teach and act with civility. Until we change and to teach ourselves that each and everyone of us has the right to exist with dignity, we will undoubtedly continue to kill each other - regardless of restrictive guns laws. > > We need to take positive steps to monitor those in our society who are struggling with life. We need to ensure that professional care is at hand and that taking advantage of it is not a negative stigma. We need to care about each other and to teach our children the same. > > ``` Agreed that the anomalously high rate of _all_ violence in America needs looking at, badly. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871/200 "2012-12-16T03:24:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > IMHO, the debate comes down to this- Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?: > > “Regardless of whether it’s a violation of the rights of lawful gun owners or not, guns must be restricted because the harm that a single madman can do with one is simply intolerable.” It’s worth noting in these kinds of discussions that a sufficiently skilled metalsmith (say, on the level of a vo-tech shop class) can make a relatively reliable full-auto submachine gun pretty easily. Fixed-ping gas blowback submachine guns are frighteningly easy to manufacture, and will become officially trivial the minute we can do 3-d printing with anything other than plastic. It’s also worth noting the success rate of our national attempts thus far at keeping drugs and undocumented immigrants out, and wondering how that might apply to firearms coming from the same locations. So my position in the debate is much closer to “trying to ban firearms to prevent massacres is a fool’s game.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-we-have-an-obligation-as-a-society-to-look-at-ways-to-curb-gun-violence/641871.md?page=11)