# "Don't you guys have an independence day?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 4, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549 "2004-07-04T22:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/41 "2004-07-05T17:20:43Z")
> [@Ross](#): > > …the cities are just as unliveable for the month preceding Guy Fawkes Night in Scotland as anywhere else in the UK. It’s the other eleven months that mark the difference 😛 > [@Arch Trout](#): > > Northern Ireland has the 12th July as a public holiday to celebrate their independence (of sorts…I suppose 😕 , kinda) **Ruadh** will no doubt be along soon to explain that one to you… ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/42 "2004-07-05T17:47:40Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > …and don’t mention the war 😃 I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/43 "2004-07-05T17:58:26Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > There’s generally some muppet agitating for a 4th of July “We’re shot of those pesky Yankees” holiday, but I didn’t think it had come to anything. The first Englishman I ever had the pleasure to meet insisted that the Fourth of July was, indeed, celebrated in England. Except that it was referred to as “Thanksgiving Day.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/44 "2004-07-05T18:29:38Z")
We had this problem in my store yesterday, because my co-workers kept wishing _everyone_ a happy Fourth of July. Being at Disney, about half of our customers are British, and they would either chuckle, frown, or look extremely puzzled. “Fourth of July? You Yanks sure have some random holidays…” I used to get asked a lot if we “had the fourth of July in Britain”. I always told the truth, but nobody believed me- “no, British calendars go from the third straight to the fifth.” ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/45 "2004-07-06T00:30:32Z")
I was at summer term at University College London that dark and dreary summer that Budweiser was brought over, I think it was 1986. On July 4th we descended on the University’s pub, and the publican (bartender) had been given a pile on those blank-in-the-middle Budweiser posters, and was making insulting signs. We LOVED them: “Come celebrate ridding ourselves of that blot on the Empire by trying their pathetic attempt at brewing lager - only 50p” ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/46 "2004-07-06T00:36:30Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Celebrating our independence as the day some of us started signing a piece of paper (rather than the day we actually _became_ independent) seems no less odd to me;) Well, they WERE independent on or about that few weeks that it took those folks to sign. It’s just the Brit’s didn’t KNOW it yet. Once they knew, they disagreed with “our” view of the situation, and we all know what happened next. Yup, Gettysburg. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/47 "2004-07-06T05:18:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I would think he meant “Don’t you have a holiday particularly devoted to celebrating your nationhood and all that it implies?” > > What would come closest - the Queen’s Birthday? Would that be “Dependence Day”? ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/48 "2004-07-06T06:22:39Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > “Great Britain - Hey, It’s Better Than A Poke In The Eye With A Sharp Stick Day” Not being particularly well-versed in that era of history, I’m curious whether Harold would have agreed. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/49 "2004-07-06T06:31:18Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Not being particularly well-versed in that era of history, I’m curious whether Harold would have agreed. I must remember that I shouldn’t post at 1:30 in the morning when I’m not at my most coherent. That comment _almost_ made sense. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/50 "2004-07-06T10:57:59Z")
> [@Arch Trout](#): > > Northern Ireland has the 12th July as a public holiday to celebrate their independence (of sorts…I suppose 😕 , kinda) the 12th of July is “celebrated” as the day of the victory of the Battle of the Boyne, when Willem II of Oranje defeated the Jacobite army in 1690. somehow, this has morphed into the Orange Order marching up and down “traditional” routes. these are generally peaceful marches, but in modern days their relevance is questioned and are seen in many areas of the nationalist communities as triumphalistic, especially the marches where their “traditional” routes lead past and in many cases through) nationalist estates and communities. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/51 "2004-07-06T11:52:54Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > the 12th of July is “celebrated” as the day of the victory of the Battle of the Boyne, when Willem II of Oranje defeated the Jacobite army in 1690. somehow, this has morphed into the Orange Order marching up and down “traditional” routes. these are generally peaceful marches, but in modern days their relevance is questioned and are seen in many areas of the nationalist communities as triumphalistic, especially the marches where their “traditional” routes lead past and in many cases through) nationalist estates and communities. Yep, their independence from catholicism. I expect some people look at it that way. I’ve always wondered why they still have it as a bank/public holiday. Although that’s not quite as stupid as having one for a man that is more myth than fact like their southern neighbours do. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/52 "2004-07-06T12:50:38Z")
There are ocasional attempts to get Trafalgar Day recognised as a holiday - although this is more to do with rationalising our bank holidays than any overwhelming national fervour (Brits don’t really do overwhelming national fervour - “musn’t grumble” is about as fervent as it gets). Here are some suggestions for national holdays from the BBC (I am quite taken with the idea of Norman Wisdom’s birthday being our national day.) [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3065951.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3065951.stm) ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/53 "2004-07-06T14:18:00Z")
> [@Arch Trout](#): > > Yep, their independence from catholicism. > I expect some people look at it that way. > I’ve always wondered why they still have it as a bank/public holiday. > Although that’s not quite as stupid as having one for a man that is more myth than fact like their southern neighbours do. what is more fact than myth? do you think people actually believe that he drove the snakes out of Ireland? everyone knows the guy was more than likely Welsh. I couldn’t give too toots about St. Patrick the man. The day is meant to celebrate everything it is to be Irish, regardless of race, colour or creed. It’s no longer purely a religious holiday, It’s a fun day out for everyone, hence so many people around the world celebrate it. If you really want to get into the rights or wrongs of paddy’s day, open a thread in GD, or the pit, this isn’t the right place for it. ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/54 "2004-07-06T15:50:30Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > what is more fact than myth? do you think people actually believe that he drove the snakes out of Ireland? everyone knows the guy was more than likely Welsh. > > I couldn’t give too toots about St. Patrick the man. The day is meant to celebrate everything it is to be Irish, regardless of race, colour or creed. It’s no longer purely a religious holiday, It’s a fun day out for everyone, hence so many people around the world celebrate it. If you really want to get into the rights or wrongs of paddy’s day, open a thread in GD, or the pit, this isn’t the right place for it. Jeez. I take it you’re Irish. Is one of the things you celebrate is having a short fuse? “He very slightly disrespected Ireland, send this man to the pit. Irish basher” I couldn’t give two toots for the Irish, full stop, whatever they do, certainly not enough to open a thread in the pit about St Patrick. too = also two = 2 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/55 "2004-07-06T16:54:46Z")
> [@Arch Trout](#): > > Jeez. > I take it you’re Irish. Is one of the things you celebrate is having a short fuse? > > “He very slightly disrespected Ireland, send this man to the pit. Irish basher” > > I couldn’t give two toots for the Irish, full stop, whatever they do, certainly not enough to open a thread in the pit about St Patrick. > > too = also > two = 2 My lord, I made a mistake, I’ll never live it down. You said something about St. Patricks day being more stupid than the OO parades I only suggested that if you really wanted to discuss your opinion of St. Patrick and the Irish for celebrating St Patricks day, we could take it to the appropriate forum, as MPSIMS isn’t really the right place. Believe me, if I wanted to open a pit thread because you “very slightly disrespected Ireland” I’d have opened it already. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/56 "2004-07-06T18:33:03Z")
I’ve come to the conclusion that we need a new national holiday. I like the sound of “Could Be Worse Day”, which was suggested earlier. I think we should have it in August. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/57 "2004-07-06T19:43:56Z")
Somebody brought up July 4, and I think I endorsed that last year too. You could call it “Good Riddance Day.” ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/58 "2004-07-06T22:21:42Z")
Just a couple of historical notes re: King George III and his descendents and American Independence. George did _not_ approach the departure of the 13 colonies with equanimity. Not only was he offended by what he perceived as a personal affront, but also the Government of Lord North tried very hard to retain these colonies. For instance, the army that the Howe brothers brought into New York harbor was the largest that Great Britain had sent abroad until that time. In contrast, Queen Elizabeth II actually presented a bell to the United States as a token of mutual admiration. This bell cast in the same foundry that cast the Liberty Bell, and was presented by the Queen in Philadelphia in July, 1976. I think she, at least, has gotten over the earlier defeat of her ancestor. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/59 "2004-07-07T09:54:18Z")
I think we should pick Mrs Windsor’s Birthday. After all, she represents all that is great about Great Britain and is a universally loved and respected figure. So I suggest August 6th. Although she may well wish to have an official birthday on another day. We could call it “Barbera Day” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549/60 "2004-07-07T12:01:16Z")
\*\* looks at **owlstretchingtime** ’s link \*\* Diana Day? _Diana Day???_ Where’s the projectile vomiting smiley when you need it? “Celebrate the achievements of the late Diana Princess of Wales”, indeed. You don’t need a whole day for _that_ … you’d need to pad it out a bit to get five seconds. “Looked winsome for the TV cameras”, and that’s about it. But anyway. I could get behind Trafalgar Day. Nothing like reminding our European partners what British foreign policy is all about … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dont-you-guys-have-an-independence-day/253549.md?page=4)