# Doobie Brothers / "China Grove" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 4, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783 "2002-10-04T03:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/21 "2011-10-31T13:43:33Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > How about Winslow, Arizona? I’ve been to Winslow, Arizona. It’s a smallish town along old Route 66 east of Flagstaff. There’s a sign on one street corner that purports to be _the_ “corner in Winslow, Arizona” from the song, though I don’t know how they would know that. Otherwise, it’s a nice enough place, I guess, but nothing particularly interesting or memorable about it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/22 "2011-10-31T13:49:26Z")
I love the Dope - zombie threads that fight my ignorance - with braaaaaainnnnnnns! ahem, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/23 "2011-10-31T20:16:41Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I’ve been to Winslow, Arizona. It’s a smallish town along old Route 66 east of Flagstaff. There’s a sign on one street corner that purports to be _the_ “corner in Winslow, Arizona” from the song, though I don’t know how they would know that. Jackson Browne might have identified it for them. I wonder if the girl in the flatboard Ford still lives around there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/24 "2011-10-31T20:26:54Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I love a good zombie rock song origins thread, with a heroin chaser tossed in. Don’t forget the 9 year delayed Mod action on the request for a forum change. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/25 "2011-11-08T21:13:02Z")
Okay, being a music-o-phile or whatever it’s officially called, I’ll throw in what I remember from interviews about the OP and another song in this thread. **China Grove:** Two of the ‘brothers’ come in and a third is at the piano, saying, “Guys, I’ve got this incredible riff that needs a song built around it. Here it is…” and it’s the descending notes in the middle of the song, apparently all on the short black keys\*. One of the guys observes that it’s rather Asian/Chinese-sounding\* and they start writing about a fictional place called China Grove. In interviews, everyone insists they didn’t know such a place really existed in Texas until well after the song was famous. \*[Traditional Chinese music uses a 5-point scale, rather than our 8-plus sharps/flats. It turns out those 5 points are, in fact, our sharps and flats – from which I assume the riff was demonstrated on only the short black keys of the piano.] The reason I remember that interview segment is that I was really struck by the odd way of making a song – from the middle of the bridge outward. It seemed/seems odd to me because I always start from the words/sentiment and build melody and other music to fit. Then again, I’m just an amateur and words are my first tool while my musical ability is way down the list of talents. What irks me is that the famous bridge in the middle goes out of its way to mention ‘a samurai sword’ – hey, guys, those are from Japan, not China. **Take It Easy** Jackson Browne and Glenn Frey lived in the same Los Angeles apartment building and knew each other. Jackson is working on his second album while Glenn and his buddies are still backing Linda Ronstadt while trying to establish themselves on their own. Glenn came by to visit Jackson who was struggling to find a rhyme…”I’m a standin’ on the corner….da dah-da dah-da dah-da – but ‘Just Mindin’ my own business’ doesn’t fit the rest of the verse.” Glenn thinks for a few minutes and suggests, “In Winslow Arizona” They try it out and Jackson says, “Hey, you helped me finish it! You and your guys can have half this song!” Jackson puts it on his second album, For Everyman, as the first part of a suite; Glenn and his friends tweak it a bit and release it as the stand-alone first track of their eponymous debut album. The rest, so the cliche’ goes, is history. The fun part is that, each time I saw them in concert (around San Diego) they’d substitue “…in southern California…” and it really seems to fit better and be a better-known place than Winslow… That info was from Pink Champagne on Ice a radio broadcast ‘biography’ of the Eagles in the mid-1980’s while they were ‘on vacation’ and nobody thought they’d ever regroup. –G! “I’m a standin’ on a corner Jus’ mindin’ my own business and it’s such a fine sight to see…” Aww, that doesn’t work. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/26 "2011-11-08T22:17:45Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > The fun part is that, each time I saw them in concert (around San Diego) they’d substitue “…in southern California…” and it really seems to fit better and be a better-known place than Winslow… I must disagree. There are a million songs that mention Southern California, and _one_ that mentions Winslow, Arizona. Using a less well-known place is preferable and makes the line that much more unique, IMO. But the practice of pandering to the home-town crowd like that is a long-standing tradition. I’ve seen the Charlie Daniels Band more than once back in the day, and “You just go and lay your hand on a Chicago Bears fan” doesn’t quite have the same snap as “Pitsburgh Steeler fan.” ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/27 "2011-11-08T22:31:23Z")
According to the [entry on songfacts.com](http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1309): > [@](#): > > China Grove is a small town in Texas, about 10 miles from San Antonio. Did Doobie Brothers singer/guitarist Tom Johnston know this when he wrote the song? Sort of. Here’s what he told us: “The words were written last, and they were made up around this whole idea of this wacky little town with a sheriff that had a Samurai Sword and all that sort of thing. The funny thing was that I found out in 1975 in a cab in Houston that there really was a China Grove, although what happened was in 1972 we were touring in Winnebagos, and we were driving into San Antonio. And there is a China Grove, Texas, right outside of San Antonio. I must have seen the sign and forgotten about it. And when I came up with the term ‘China Grove,’ I thought I was just making it up because of the words being about this crazy sheriff with a Samurai Sword.” ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/28 "2011-11-09T16:38:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Jackson Browne might have identified it for them. > > I wonder if the girl in the flatboard Ford still lives around there. 😃 I am not making this up. A couple years ago, after a visit to the Grand Canyon, I decided to continue east to check out the Meteor Crater, which is just west of Winslow. After visiting the crater (very cool, BTW), I stopped at the gas station before heading back to the interstate (I-40 ?). (This is the gas station with the big teepee seen in “Starman”, BTW). Anyway, as I’m pumping gas, there’s this audio-loop ad playing to try to get you to visit Winslow. And I happen to catch: “…have your picture taken with a girl in a flatbed Ford…” and I just died laughing. Apparently Winslow’s best known for…one corner and the song ! ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/29 "2011-11-10T00:08:49Z")
This is just my own belief, but I grew up in San Antonio and always thought they were talking about [The Japanese Tea Gardens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Japanese_Tea_Garden). I’m sure there’s a grove or two along a walking path that might have inspired the band to write the song. Although, the Gardens are within the city limits. Just my 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/30 "2011-11-10T00:31:36Z")
Why would a China-obsessed sheriff have a samurai sword? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/31 "2011-11-10T03:26:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Why would a China-obsessed sheriff have a samurai sword? [sup]I’ll go ahead and provide what I just _know_ is coming…[/sup] Because he’s a Texan. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783/32 "2011-11-10T05:05:06Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Why would a China-obsessed sheriff have a samurai sword? Ultimate War Trophy. Thems people _hate_ each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doobie-brothers-china-grove/130783.md?page=1)