Doonesbury: CHEAT!

Krokodil,

The technique of creating characters to effectively express, or to satirize, political or philosophical POVs in ways that serve the agenda of the writer/artist is no “cheat”; it a standard operating procedure.

It works, or does not work, depending on whether or not it is funny and/or believable.

Exactly right that the character BD would not have been open to the ideas expressed unless they came out of the mouth of someone who he could identify with. Of course we all should judge ideas based on their merits (or lack thereof), and not on who says them, but BD would not be capable of that; if a perceived liberal “surrender monkey” said those thoughts, he’d not have considered them on their merits. BD has grown, but not that far. Having BD be open to considering those ideas coming out of a liberal’s mouth would not be believable.

Are there intellectual conservatives and veterans who are of the same mind as that professor? Yes. Given what the facts are, and the character presents unimpeachable facts, it is shocking that some do not. The character is believable.

Trudeau gets to do more than to just argue that an intellectual philosophically consistent conservative would be disgusted with how so called conservatives have failed to be accountable for the results of this war and would honestly judge it to be a neocon blunder; he gets to illustrate one of his creation. Some may be like BD, and be open to considering the ideas only because they come out of the mouth of a character who is portrayed as conservative and a veteran, and otherwise would not consider them on their own merits (or lack of). Some, like you, can’t look at the ideas because they are, in reality, coming out of Trudeau’s mouth. Fine. But he fairly gets to use the tool.

The technique of creating a character unlike yourself to “sell” a POV is as old as fiction and is no “cheat”, even if it does not always come off as believable. (In this case I think it does.)

That’s not being respectful of veterans, or he would have done it before the invasion of Iraq, and included casualties from other wars.

As to the OP, I doubt using a caricature to mouth an issue so as to mock it is so unprecedented. Trudeau can do what he wants with his cartoons.

Regards,
Shodan

He would have done a special strip listing casualties before we were involved in any ongoing war that was producing large numbers of casualties?

Since this strip came out the same week that a story came out about how a Chinese soldier committed suicide because of his fellow troops hazing him due to his nationality, you could make the argument that Trudeau is bending over backward to give veterans a special authority. That would still not make much sense, since he has done many strips about sexual harassment in the Army, but you could try to make that argument.

The reason you can do so is that while Trudeau is certainly liberal, he is also the most nuanced and yes, complicated, political satirist ever to use the medium of the comic strip, no matter what Krokodil says. Krokodil, for Stalin’s sake, you’ve named yourself after a famous Russian political satire magazine, and you don’t get this?

Trudeau is a pointillist. His week of strips on a subject are dots used to build up a much larger canvas that create new pictures when taken as a whole. He is no mindless Mallard Fillmore. In this case, he’s the embodiment of the 21st century trope of hating the war while supporting the troops, exactly what the right called upon the left to do since they were obviously still going to be traitorous enough to not support their country and president in a time of war. His “Sandbox” has been a vehicle for the troops to express themselves since the first Gulf War. He’s gone to the region himself to talk to the troops. He’s put out a series of books collecting his strips about B.D.'s war experience, the proceeds from which go to benefit Fisher House which provides “a “home away from home” for military families to be close to a loved one during hospitalization for an illness, disease or injury.” He’s the single most visible and dedicated chronicler of the modern veteran among the right or left.

You don’t have to agree with anything he says. But a CHEAT? Ridiculous. He’s earned his opinion and you need to respect that.

YO! Krokodil!

Read THIS, 5 days a week, online.

Hypercool.

If nothing else, I’m glad you got the reference.

Since 58,000 American soldiers died in Vietnam and 4,500 in Iraq, you need to explain what definition of ‘same’ you are using.

By that standard, no human being on earth is respectful of veterans, including you yourself. Because to meet that standard, the first time they said anything about veterans, they had no prior history of saying things about other veterans.

Why does [everyone who has ever lived] hate America?

I’m not sure I understand the OP’s point anyway. Trudeau can’t criticize because he’s not a veteran himself?

I take it Krokodil is a published cartoonist?

sigh

Well, let’s see:

Unpopular war–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

Faulty reasoning for participation in war–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

Corrupt government, intent on sucking up zillions of dollars which never end up benefitting the people–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

Native population not really in support of war–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

Inhospitable terrain, unfamiliar to US soldiers–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

US leadership saying, “We’re winning this war!”–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check

“Good guys” and “Bad guys” intermingling, so US soldiers have trouble differentiating who exactly is the enemy–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check.

Difficulty extricating US personnel from the war theater, talk of “Peace with Honor”–Vietnam, check, Iraq, check.

IMHO, it’s the same song, just forty years later.
~VOW

Are the Clancy novels supposed to be viewed as political opinion/editorials, or merely action/adventure stories? :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: The only Tom Clancy novel I have read was ** Red Storm Rising**.

I watched The Hunt for Red October, Clear and Present Danger, and The Sum of All Fears movies.

IMHO, the three books from those movies are better than the movies. Particularly “Hunt”, as he was still under the influence of an editor. TSOAF is probably my second favorite of his. Debt of Honor, again IMHO, is where he lost his fastball, though Without Remorse has its moments.

Thanks for the Doonesbury links. FWIW, I don’t see the problem the OP has with the strips. Trudeau has always been left-leaning for as long as I’ve been reading, I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised.

Frankly a lot of your check marks are wrong in at least one case and in many times in both. I’m not going to bother to correct you, since I doubt that you are amenable to a factual reasoned argument.

JoelUpchurch, maybe you should. I, for one, can’t find anything wrong with ~VOWs points.
SS

Woah, wait a minute. Did you just equate a Gulf War vet being against the war to a Reconstruction-era black being against Emancipation?

You might want to walk that one back a bit, chief.

Gee, I dunno.

Because I read this and I think “since when did my father become a professor?” He certainly checks out: in his sixties, Vietnam vet, conservative. Voted for W at least once. He’s been getting more liberal in his age, but I do recall asking him in about 2007 or so what he’d do if he was faced with the opportunity to shake GWB’s hand.

“Something to get myself arrested,” he replied.

I have to agree. I don’t in fact think that there is a good deep comparison to make between the two wars, but on the superficial level of VOW’s list, there’s nothing to object to except possibly that both wars were well supported for years before they finally became unpopular.

I certainly willing to discuss it, but you need to get the moderator to move the thread to Great Debates. It isn’t suitable for Cafe Society. Frankly most of the responses should have been in GD anyway.

So you guys are really blasting a guy for thinking that using an author avatar is lazy writing? Seriously?

What character is not an “author avatar” by this standard?