# "Doonesbury" mocks Starbucks open-carry policy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689 "2010-03-25T00:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/41 "2010-03-26T19:47:13Z")
I’m still trying to figure why someone who was not in law enforcement or the military would see the need to open-carry into a Starbucks. Are they putting them in extremely dangerous neighborhoods where flying bullets are more common than flying insects? Has the crime rate suddenly gone up more than ten-times in the last few weeks? ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/42 "2010-03-26T19:56:21Z")
I’ve always wondered about people who get “nervous” about openly-carried firearms. Do you have a problem with your local police officer, who is in to get coffee? They’re usually open-carrying… And the California law is interesting, with “holstered and unloaded.” Essentially, if you unholster and load your firearm for self-defense, you are in violation of the law. So, the guy you are defending against goes to jail, and YOU go to jail for defending yourself…(unless there is an exception clause in this particular law?) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/43 "2010-03-26T20:08:32Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I’m still trying to figure why someone who was not in law enforcement or the military would see the need to open-carry into a Starbucks. Are they putting them in extremely dangerous neighborhoods where flying bullets are more common than flying insects? Has the crime rate suddenly gone up more than ten-times in the last few weeks? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Some of us just carry at all times and open carry for some is a preferred mode. > [@astorian](#): > > I don’t know what the laws are in your neck of the woods. But IF people are allowed to carry handguns where you live, why would you be more afraid to take your kids to Starbucks than to… Pizza Hut or Toys R Us? Or the park or the zoo? Is Starbucks the only retail business that doesn’t take steps to disarm its patrons? Dio is in Minnesota. Minnesota is both an open and concealed [carry](http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/FAQs.html) state. But unlike some states you have to have a permit to carry openly there. > [@astorian](#): > > You may as well stay home and bar your doors. What I find is amusing is how many people will say they don’t have a problem with people having guns in their homes for protection, but then get all freaky about someone carrying in public. Like somehow people become uncontrollable blood thirsty vigilantes the moment they take the gun out of the house.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/44 "2010-03-26T20:14:57Z")
Starbuck’s policy doesn’t bother me. They are free to allow open carry in their store in accordance with local laws. I’m free to buy coffee somewhere else where I don’t have to worry how much caffeine the guy next to me with the Glock on his hip has had. We all win. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/45 "2010-03-26T20:21:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > What I find is amusing is how many people will say they don’t have a problem with people having guns in their homes for protection, but then get all freaky about someone carrying in public. Like somehow people become uncontrollable blood thirsty vigilantes the moment they take the gun out of the house.:rolleyes: Didn’t it cross your mind that the reason it’s okay for the gun-toters to tote at home might be because we’re not _in_ their home? If the people tote in public then, like with the public smokers, we have to endure the public expression of their hobby. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/46 "2010-03-26T20:32:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Didn’t it cross your mind that the reason it’s okay for the gun-toters to tote at home might be because we’re not _in_ their home? If the people tote in public then, like with the public smokers, we have to endure the public expression of their hobby. Other than the odor of Hoppes #9 cleaning solvent, what are you enduring? Some say that the smell is an aphrodisiac. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/47 "2010-03-26T20:35:04Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Other than the odor of Hoppes #9 cleaning solvent, what are you enduring? Don’t be obtuse - some people clearly feel imperilled when people walk around flashing guns. Perhaps it’s because they’re watched too many plays and think that if you see a gun in the first scene it’ll be fired by the third - but regardless a noninsignificant number of people see a gun and irrationally think “that thing looks like a potentially dangerous weapon!” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/48 "2010-03-26T20:44:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > QFT, exactly what I thought. Starbucks is not _encouraging_ gun-toting, they are simply going along with the laws, and not making a special rule banning it. > > But Starbucks is an easy target, that’s why he’s targeting them. This. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/49 "2010-03-26T20:55:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Didn’t it cross your mind that the reason it’s okay for the gun-toters to tote at home might be because we’re not _in_ their home? If the people tote in public then, like with the public smokers, we have to endure the public expression of their hobby. People need to get over this, which is one reason why the emergence of the open carry movement is a good thing. it will eventually return open carry to a normal, universally accepted mode of carry. At one time in this country open carry was done most of the time. In fact, at one time people who concealed their weapons were considered cowards. I support both OC & CCW. The guns and the people are the same either way. Those who are freaking out over it need to take a hard look at the danger they’re **not** in, get over it, and move on to another boogeyman. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/50 "2010-03-26T20:55:40Z")
I’m a little unclear about who is “mocking” whom, exactly. The Doonesbury strip is dated 03/22, and the Starbucks press release, from 19 days earlier, states that “Advocacy groups from both sides of this issue have chosen to use Starbucks as a way to draw attention to their positions.” I missed it, but apparently something was already going on before the strip was published and before Starbucks felt the need to publicly reiterate their rather sensible “Leave us out of it” policy. As someone said upthread, this isn’t Trudeau’s best work, but this seems more like he’s pointing out the absurdity of Starbucks-as-gun-control-battleground rather than taking a swipe at Starbucks itself. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/51 "2010-03-26T20:56:02Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > What I find is amusing is how many people will say they don’t have a problem with people having guns in their homes for protection, but then get all freaky about someone carrying in public. Like somehow people become uncontrollable blood thirsty vigilantes the moment they take the gun out of the house.:rolleyes: Actually, I’d be willing to bet that the majority of shootings, both good and bad, happen in or around someone’s home. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/52 "2010-03-26T21:58:54Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > People need to get over this, which is one reason why the emergence of the open carry movement is a good thing. it will eventually return open carry to a normal, universally accepted mode of carry. At one time in this country open carry was done most of the time. In fact, at one time people who concealed their weapons were considered cowards. > > I support both OC & CCW. The guns and the people are the same either way. Those who are freaking out over it need to take a hard look at the danger they’re **not** in, get over it, and move on to another boogeyman. Or, alternatively, everybody could get over their desire to own and carry guns around. Either way would work. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/53 "2010-03-26T23:19:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Or, alternatively, everybody could get over their desire to own and carry guns around. Either way would work. Or, everybody could get over their desire to express their opinion on every little matter. Either way could work. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/54 "2010-03-26T23:30:33Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Or, everybody could get over their desire to express their opinion on every little matter. Either way could work. You’re expressing your opinion that people should refrain from expressing opinions? And I hope that you meant to imply that people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry, because that’s an expression of the opinion that people should be able to proudly wave their guns around without restriction. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/55 "2010-03-26T23:45:06Z")
Actually, I was applying your sentiment to the first amendment. It’s not important, you don’t really _need_ the ability to talk against those in power. Why, it incites others to commit violent acts on occasion. Look at the poor senators these days, getting death threats. Same logic you were using. Why should people get over their desire to own and carry guns around? (Why should people get over their desire to paint models of WWII battleships?) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/56 "2010-03-26T23:54:43Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Actually, I was applying your sentiment to the first amendment. It’s not important, you don’t really _need_ the ability to talk against those in power. Why, it incites others to commit violent acts on occasion. Look at the poor senators these days, getting death threats. > > Same logic you were using. > > Why should people get over their desire to own and carry guns around? (Why should people get over their desire to paint models of WWII battleships?) Why should people get over their desire to take things they want, which happen not to be nailed down? There are _lots_ of different ways to arrange a social contract, and the fact that we have a second amendment with lots of inherent inertia (and some very vocal lingering popularity) doesn’t in any way mean that guns are an inherent _good_. Several countries have run them damn near out of casual circulation, and have not, to date, spontaneously combusted or turned into facist dictatorships. The sentiment was expressed that the people who don’t like having guns around should all change their opinions - open carry for many is a deliberate effort to bring that to pass through acclimatization. However, the _other_ perspective is equally valid, conceptually speaking: if everyone all decided to keep their guns at home, or beat them into plowshares (be careful when hammering the ammunition), the problem would be _equally_ resolved. So why should I pretend that the gun-preferring view has an inherently superior validity? Because there’s an amendment that refrains from _forbidding_ it? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/57 "2010-03-27T00:01:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And I hope that you meant to imply that people shouldn’t be allowed to open carry, because that’s an expression of the opinion that people should be able to proudly wave their guns around without restriction. Nobody is waving their guns around without restriction. They are properly holstered according to state law. If they are not the person in question is rightfully subject to arrest and prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/58 "2010-03-27T00:07:01Z")
Cause it’s as legal as anything else is. You don’t like it? Change the law. In the meantime, someone’s gonna just keep his cannon on his plow. > **[Popular Mechanics](https://books.google.com/books?id=8N0DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA452&lpg=PA452&dq=cannon%2Bplow%2Bpatent&source=bl&ots=sgzrX5hd-I&sig=ZDPh6AuEWUvZiAsKo519aYQRC5I&hl=en&ei=9UutS8zyHYKclgf96LiRAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=cannon%20plow%20patent&f=false)** > > Popular Mechanics inspires, instructs and influences readers to help them master the modern world. Whether it’s practical DIY home-improvement tips, gadgets and digital technology, information on the newest cars or the latest breakthroughs in science... ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/59 "2010-03-27T00:20:17Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Cause it’s as legal as anything else is. You don’t like it? Change the law. > > In the meantime, someone’s gonna just keep his cannon on his plow. > [Popular Mechanics - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=8N0DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA452&lpg=PA452&dq=cannon+plow+patent&source=bl&ots=sgzrX5hd-I&sig=ZDPh6AuEWUvZiAsKo519aYQRC5I&hl=en&ei=9UutS8zyHYKclgf96LiRAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=cannon%20plow%20patent&f=false) Why don’t you just make it illegal to be afraid of guns? Since clearly the only way to express an opinion that other people should change _their_ opinion about something is to ban something. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/60 "2010-03-27T01:01:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Don’t be obtuse - some people clearly feel imperilled when people walk around flashing guns. Perhaps it’s because they’re watched too many plays and think that if you see a gun in the first scene it’ll be fired by the third - but regardless a noninsignificant number of people see a gun and irrationally think “that thing looks like a potentially dangerous weapon!” One endures someone smoking around them as the smells and second hand smoke drifts into their nasal cavity. One does not endure anything by sharing space in a coffee shop with someone carrying, open or concealed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=4)