# "Doonesbury" mocks Starbucks open-carry policy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689 "2010-03-25T00:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/61 "2010-03-27T01:24:35Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Asking a barista to tell someone with a gun to leave sounds like a difficult situation. Why would that be? Because the person with the gun might start shooting? That would be an argument against allowing open carry. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/62 "2010-03-27T01:27:54Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I’m a little unclear about who is “mocking” whom, exactly. The Doonesbury strip is dated 03/22, and the Starbucks press release, from 19 days earlier, states that “Advocacy groups from both sides of this issue have chosen to use Starbucks as a way to draw attention to their positions.” I missed it, but apparently something was already going on before the strip was published and before Starbucks felt the need to publicly reiterate their rather sensible “Leave us out of it” policy. > > As someone said upthread, this isn’t Trudeau’s best work, but this seems more like he’s pointing out the absurdity of Starbucks-as-gun-control-battleground rather than taking a swipe at Starbucks itself. Given that syndicated comic strips have a considerable lead time between their composition and their publishing date, I would presume Trudeau started the arc soon after the Starbucks policy became public news. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/63 "2010-03-27T02:20:41Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Or, alternatively, everybody could get over their desire to own and carry guns around. Either way would work. I don’t get over constitutional rights so easily. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/64 "2010-03-27T02:29:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Kudos to Starbucks for not caving to the gun-grabbers. Bonus points for annoying many whiny liberals in the process. Think I will go spend money at Starbucks tomorrow, and I don’t even drink coffee. You can make up for me. Sucks, cause I’ll really miss my vanilla lattes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/65 "2010-03-27T06:21:02Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you less comfortable knowing for sure someone near you is armed (open carrier) or not having any idea whatsoever (concealer)? I’m not uncomfortable either way, but my kids would be. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/66 "2010-03-27T06:28:12Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Speaking as someone who has never owned (or wanted) a gun… > > I don’t know what the laws are in your neck of the woods. But IF people are allowed to carry handguns where you live, why would you be more afraid to take your kids to Starbucks than to… Pizza Hut or Toys R Us? Or the park or the zoo? Is Starbucks the only retail business that doesn’t take steps to disarm its patrons? > > If you live in a municipality where people are allowed to pack heat openly, and if that’s a major concern for you, just where CAN you go that you wouldn’t fear for your kids’ safety? You may as well stay home and bar your doors. Minnesota has CCW, but it doesn’t matter much because virtually all business and public buildings, parks, etc. prohibit guns so people don’t carry them much becuase they can’t bring them inside anywere (at least in the MSP metro area). I’m not afraid of a goddamned thing, but I have three little girls who are. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/67 "2010-03-27T06:56:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not uncomfortable either way, but my kids would be. Would your kids be uncomfortable at a police convention, with everyone armed? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/68 "2010-03-27T07:25:41Z")
Yes,and why would they be armed at a convention? ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/69 "2010-03-27T08:18:29Z")
Been reading all of those “gun threads”, and excuse my European lack of understanding, but _why_ in the hell are pro-gun people so obsessed with carrying a weapon everywhere, even in some absolutely harmless coffee house ? They still live in the fucking Far West age or what ? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/70 "2010-03-27T08:49:34Z")
Because I can. Just a tip: if you ask your question nicely you might get an answer that will increase your knowledge, pique your interest, or perhaps even enlighten you. But since you didn’t and chose to be confrontational about it, good luck getting anybody to take you seriously. Why don’t you try asking again, maybe this time with some of that European dignity and cultured good manners I often hear about but rarely see? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/71 "2010-03-27T09:00:31Z")
I like the last post at the opposingvisions site: > [@](#): > > originally posted by esad > **starbucks and the law** > _i have upped my purchases since learning they are a **safe** place to shop. we have to carry because ignorance is spreading quickly._ Gives new meaning to the SDMB banner. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/72 "2010-03-27T12:16:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes,and why would they be armed at a convention? Cops are armed _everywhere_, Dio. Provided they’re New York Cops. Now, I know a guy, he’s the chief of police upstate, doesn’t even carry a gun. Great guy. (Went to school with the Orange County Choppers guys. Collects assault rifles.) But he won’t carry on duty if he can possibly avoid it. Been avoiding it for thirty years. But NY Cops? Carry everywhere. Matter of policy. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/73 "2010-03-27T12:48:00Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > Been reading all of those “gun threads”, and excuse my European lack of understanding, but _why_ in the hell are pro-gun people so obsessed with carrying a weapon everywhere, even in some absolutely harmless coffee house ? > > They still live in the fucking Far West age or what ? I write as one biased towards what (I consider) reasonable gun control laws along with much more serious enforcement of the laws we’ve got, who thinks someone feeling that they, and those around them, are significantly safer with a gun at all times is very likely mistaken (although neither do I believe that the contrapositive is likely true either), and still I react to this statement as follows: _Why_ in the hell are some gun control people so obsessed with gun-fear that they pick these stupid fights? Are they stupid jerks or what? The justifiable reason to be in favor of rational regulations (and enforcement of them) is to reduce the amount of human deaths caused by guns. There is absolutely no argument even being attempted that preventing open carry into Starbuck’s will have any impact on those numbers. Few of us “moderates”, even those with pro gun control leanings, (yes, I am Left of center, but still a moderate) will be swayed that one population should be impeded from behaving in a manner that the local law allows them merely because it makes a very few others “uncomfortable” to see them do it, or because we think they are goofy or odd for wanting to. Behaving in manner allowable by local laws does not need special justification; preventing them from doing so does. And the belief that allowing freedoms even if we disagree with what they result in is the default position _is_ more ingrained in the American psyche than in the European one, I think. I heard the answer that the Brady folks need to find a way to stay “relevant” but this does not do it; this merely makes them more mockable including by some of us who _agree_ with some of their other positions. And Starbucks harmeless? Do you _know_ how much saturated fat and sugar is _in_ just one of those Frappacinos? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/74 "2010-03-27T12:52:16Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Because I can. I see this as the real basis of the issue. I’m a liberal who knows how to shoot, but have never felt the need to own a gun. I don’t have a lot of problem with people having guns, but I think **Khaki Campbell** asked exactly the right question. The vibe I get is that people open carrying guns into places like coffee shops are doing so for a number of reasons. But I think a lot of it is because they can, and because they want to flaunt their doing so. And I do believe that they want to intimidate people. I see that as rather rude. I can stand on the public boardwalk and preach to passersby about crackpot religious beliefs. But I don’t. Gun rights are important to you - fine. Free speech is important to me, but I don’t make an exhibitionist of myself simply because I have that right. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/75 "2010-03-27T13:59:35Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I can stand on the public boardwalk and preach to passersby about crackpot religious beliefs. But I don’t. Do you want it to be illegal to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/76 "2010-03-27T14:49:01Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Do you want it to be illegal to do so? Lots of things are legal but doing them makes you an asshole. Like walking in back of cars that are backing up. 😛 In my brief stint as a security guard, in which I wore a holstered sidearm along with my clearly labeled guard uniform, I was astonished at how many people absolutely freaked at the sight of even someone who had a need to be armed. My sidearm is too large to conceal well, and along with the no-carry postings **Diogenes** mentioned, it’s too inconvenient for me to carry. Just how did Starbucks get on the radar on this issue? Did they go out of their way to say that gun carriers were welcome in their stores? Did they circulate an internal memo to Starbucks employees on company policy and it went viral? Did someone complain to Starbucks upon seeing someone open carry there, and when Starbucks explained their policy the complaintant took their grievance to the 'Net? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/77 "2010-03-27T15:04:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes,and why would they be armed at a convention? CA Police are supposed to be armed at all times. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/78 "2010-03-27T15:28:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …Just how did Starbucks get on the radar on this issue? Did they go out of their way to say that gun carriers were welcome in their stores? Did they circulate an internal memo to Starbucks employees on company policy and it went viral? **Did someone complain to Starbucks upon seeing someone open carry there, and when Starbucks explained their policy the complaintant took their grievance to the 'Net?** It was something like that. Other coffee shops in the area made a big deal about their no gun policies and lo and behold Starbucks comes out in support of local laws instead. The gun community, which has a huge presence on the 'net got hold of it and it went viral. Very similar to the [Jim Zumbo incident in 2007.](http://www.pursuetheoutdoors.com/news/2007/02/19/jim-zumbo-creates-controversy-over-assault-rifle-statement-dumped-by-outdoor-life/) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/79 "2010-03-27T16:15:14Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The sentiment was expressed that the people who don’t like having guns around should all change their opinions - open carry for many is a deliberate effort to bring that to pass through acclimatization. However, the _other_ perspective is equally valid, conceptually speaking: if everyone all decided to keep their guns at home, or beat them into plowshares (be careful when hammering the ammunition), the problem would be _equally_ resolved. So why should I pretend that the gun-preferring view has an inherently superior validity? Because the former requires people to do nothing other than MYOB, while the latter requires regulation of people’s behavior (given that, no, people are not going to voluntarily and unanimously decide to change their minds). While there are some situations that do require regulation, the initial presumption in a free society should be against it. To illustrate the concept with an example: [QUOTE=L. Sprague deCamp, “Lest Darkness Fall”] “You don’t like the Goths?” “No! Not with the persecution we have to put up with!” “Persecution?” Padway raised his eyebrows. “Religious persecution. We won’t stand for it forever.” “I thought the Goths let everybody worship as they pleased.” “That’s just it! We Orthodox are forced to stand around and watch Arians and Monophysites and Nestorians and Jews going about their business unmolested, as if they owned the country. If that isn’t persecution, I’d like to know what is!” [/QUOTE] By your reasoning, the two viewpoints are equally valid, which is absurd on its face. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/80 "2010-03-27T16:45:24Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > Been reading all of those “gun threads”, and excuse my European lack of understanding, but _why_ in the hell are pro-gun people so obsessed with carrying a weapon everywhere, even in some absolutely harmless coffee house ? > > They still live in the fucking Far West age or what ? Wheneevr you ask them this question, they just scream at you that it’s “because they CAN.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=5)