# "Doonesbury" mocks Starbucks open-carry policy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689 "2010-03-25T00:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/121 "2010-03-29T22:11:28Z")
Trudeau was being a bit dickish and sanctimonious about it, but it wouldn’t be the first time, and he appears to have gotten it out of his system. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/122 "2010-03-30T03:31:51Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Funny thing about this is, you have two sides that both think the other is engaging in rude behavior: one is scaring the kiddies, and the other is, er, not being happy that the other is scaring the kiddies? How to resolve this problem? That’s exactly what I was saying. Funny old world, isn’t it? Some people think the way you do, and some people think the opposite of how you do, and both of them have a valid point. Further, both of them think harm will come from the opposite behavior. > [@begbert2](#): > > I will say that faced with the contemptuous “fuck you” attitude you’re presenting, it does make a man wish it was viable in this nation of cowboys to use the law to slap you in the face. And here I am, saying that you’re presenting a contemptuous “fuck you” attitude to everyone who wants to carry a gun about. It does make a man wish it was viable in this nation of nervous nellies to decide to live and let live. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/123 "2010-03-30T05:13:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Funny thing about this is, you have two sides that both think the other is engaging in rude behavior: one is scaring the kiddies, . No, the guns aren’t scaring the _kids_, kids are fascinated by guns. The guns are scaring the parents, who then make their children scared. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/124 "2010-03-30T11:26:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, the guns aren’t scaring the _kids_, kids are fascinated by guns. The guns are scaring the parents, who then make their children scared. I don’t think that’s quite it at all. Kids with sense are as scared of guns as they are fascinated by them. It’s not necessarily either/or. [Rhetorical questions] What if you saw a neighborhood gang of hoodlums strutting into Starbucks openly carrying firearms? How would you feel if you were a woman and you were being aggressively hit on by a man who was carrying openly? If you’re having a heated argument with a person carrying a firearm, would you be more or less concerned than if you were talking to an unarmed person? [/Rhetorical questions] Of course the common factor here is that guns cause fear and intimidate people. I for one am not afraid to admit it. Isn’t that one of the points of carrying openly? You are letting everyone know that you have a powerful object that can kill instantly should you be required to use it… … or should you lose your temper… or have an accidental discharge… or have the gun snatched off you by a psychopath… and so on. There are valid reasons to be concerned about and, yes, even scared of people carrying guns. Not all gun owners are trained, responsible, cool calm and collected people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/125 "2010-03-30T12:11:42Z")
> [@Abe](#): > > I don’t think that’s quite it at all. Kids with sense are as scared of guns as they are fascinated by them. It’s not necessarily either/or. Yeah, no true Scotskid wouldn’t be afraid of guns. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/126 "2010-03-30T13:22:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, the guns aren’t scaring the _kids_, kids are fascinated by guns. The guns are scaring the parents, who then make their children scared. No, the guns don’t scare this parent, but they do scare my kids. Please don’t presume to speak for my family. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/127 "2010-03-30T15:01:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, the guns don’t scare this parent, but they do scare my kids. Please don’t presume to speak for my family. Please don’t hide behind your kids. You raised them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/128 "2010-03-30T15:05:12Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Please don’t hide behind your kids. You raised them. What is this supposed to mean? In what way am I “hiding behind them?” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/129 "2010-03-30T15:21:45Z")
[HIJACK] I think this week’s Donnesbury series is more interesting, in which he compares the Tea Party movement to the old yippies of the 60s – they are both passionate, but incoherent, voices of protest. [\HIJACK] ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/130 "2010-03-30T16:52:27Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > And here I am, saying that you’re presenting a contemptuous “fuck you” attitude to everyone who wants to carry a gun about. It does make a man wish it was viable in this nation of nervous nellies to decide to live and let live. I’m only saying “fuck you” when I’m forcing them to live in a world that conflicts with their comfort zone. This happens to the fraidy-cats as soon as somebody open-carrys in front of them. But it only happens to the gun-lovers when I actually force them _not_ to carry. Excepting in the case you’re seriously of the opinion that gun-owners are disturbed and frightened by the mere fact that some other people don’t like their guns, anyway - an attitude which I previously and currently describe as paranoia. As much as the poor oppressed gun-toters might wish to cry that they’re being oppressed, they _do_ currently have the upper hand. They can flaunt. They _ **do** _ flaunt. They utterly disregard the concerns of others, either with the polite hope that acclimatization will eventually silence the complaints, or alternatively with open scorn and contempt for those who dislike seeing the guns around. Nothing the fraidy-cats are currently doing has the comparable effect of raining on the gun-toters’ parades - unless they pull off a public ban. In which case _they_ win, having forced the gun-toters to put up with _their_ preferred world. Which is _exactly_ what the gun-toters are gunning for (so to speak) when they flaunt their guns in front of these people. Of course, to actually _get_ their public disregard for the preferences and safety of others banned, the gun-toters have to be pretty well outnumbered - which means they’re usually safe, at least in public spaces anyway. (Businesses other than Starbucks may take the initiative on behalf of their more timid patrons, of course. More power to them.) > [@DrDeth](#): > > No, the guns aren’t scaring the _kids_, kids are fascinated by guns. The guns are scaring the parents, who then make their children scared. Why yes, **ALL** kids react the same to guns. You’re absolutely right. No, wait, the other thing. I will note that if you find yourself pretending that you’re not capable of frightening kids with a pistol, you might ask yourself why you’re pretending this. Could it be that if you admitted that you were terrorizing the kiddies, it would make you feel guilty about your open carry around them? (This of course doesn’t apply to people who freely admit that their pistol might scare people young and old and either don’t care, or hope for acclimatization and think that the end justifies the means.) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/131 "2010-03-30T18:01:57Z")
There won’t be any true wisdom said on the open carry debate until South Park does an episode on it.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/132 "2010-04-01T11:57:19Z")
Under what possible circumstance would you ever have to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, into a coffee shop? (Other than to rob it.) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/133 "2010-04-01T12:15:47Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Under what possible circumstance would you ever have to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, into a coffee shop? (Other than to rob it.) Please see the last 23,417 threads where lawful CCW holders on the SDMB try to explain the principles behind concealed carry. They’re easy to find, they’re the ones where there are a lot of “gun nut”, “concealed carry killers”, “metal penis”, and my favourite, the “glowering, brooding psychopath” insults are thrown out with impunity. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/134 "2010-04-01T12:20:21Z")
I’m thinking that the question must have been an April Fools joke, **Una**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/135 "2010-04-01T13:01:57Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Under what possible circumstance would you ever have to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, into a coffee shop? (Other than to rob it.) “Because I CAN!” is the only reason they will ever give or are capable of giving. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/136 "2010-04-01T13:34:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “Because I CAN!” is the only reason they will ever give or are capable of giving. Actually, it is “_Because I live in a democratic republic whose constitution (somewhat arguably) grants me the right to bear arms and I believe that a right not exercised is a right lost, plus my local jurisdiction has no restrictions on doing so._” For the record, I do not own a firearm. I am uncomfortable (just slightly though) around those openly carrying who are authorized to do so in my city (police and, when they were around, National Guard). I was a bit more uncomfortable when I visited places which allowed open carry. My dislike of firearms (though I love shooting games) and my wish for a much narrower interpretation of that constitutional amendment does not prevent me from understanding gun owners rights. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/137 "2010-04-01T14:49:13Z")
Rights are beside the point. It’s not a question of understanding the rights. It’s a curiosity about the motivation. It’s an inherently attention seeking act if nothing else (and I think it would be disingenuous for them to deny that). I also get the strong impression from many conversations with them that it’s very important to them to feel like they are intimidating people. I think it’s pathetic, man-child machismo that makes people want to swagger around with guns on their hips, but they can’t admit that, of course, so they scream about it being their right as though that’s an explanation. That’s not to say they _don’t_ have a right, or even that they owe anybody an explanation, but I still have a right to think they’re lame, and to opine that it makes them look more childish than manly. People who have to carry for their jobs are excluded from any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/138 "2010-04-01T14:53:48Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Under what possible circumstance would you ever have to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, into a coffee shop? (Other than to rob it.) Because if there is any good in carrying guns you’ve got to, you know, CARRY them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/139 "2010-04-01T15:00:51Z")
That’s just begging the question. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689/140 "2010-04-01T15:32:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That’s just begging the question. Ok, to spell it out: the possible reasons to take your sidearm into a coffee shop include the following: [ul] [li]On the small chance some crisis will occur that you would need to draw your gun.[/li][li]If openly carried, to possibly deter someone else from drawing and misusing a gun.[/li][li]To assert that being armed is not a privilege reserved to officers and agents of the State.[/li][li]To be part of the movement for gun owners to “come out the closet”, and demonstrate that otherwise ordinary and unremarkable people believe in and exercise gun ownership.[/li][li]To hopefully desensitize people to the presence of guns, so that the sight of a law-abiding citizen bearing a holstered firearm is not a threat or cause for fear.[/li][/ul]Are there yahoos out there who are trying to intimidate people? Unfortunately yes. But that does not mean that only a yahoo would want to openly carry, any more than anyone who owns a gun and practices with it are would-be militiamen or vigilantes. Seriously, is being peaceful and law-abiding supposed to be based on _squeamishness_- being afraid of and repulsed by weapons? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doonesbury-mocks-starbucks-open-carry-policy/533689.md?page=8)