# Dope on FL senate election **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703 "2010-04-20T01:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/41 "2010-04-29T01:15:12Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I, personally, have particular reason to think he’s gay, but I don’t expect that to carry weight with anyone else, especially as I cannot discuss how I came by that knowledge (sorry, I know that sounds all “black helicopter” conspiracy theorist, but that’s just how it is). No, actually it sounds all “deep closet” yawn. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/42 "2010-04-29T01:22:33Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The evidence that he’s gay is pretty thin. And he’s not only not admitting it but actively denies it and is married. > > Of course that doesn’t mean he’s not gay, but he’s at least pretty deep in the closet, and I think its a pretty big leap to say he’s “generally acknowledged” to be gay. > > (plus, in two-hundred years has there really not been another governor who was widely rumored to be gay? we’ve had at least one other gay governor in my lifetime, Jim McGreevy, though I don’t know if he was ever considered to be a gay before he was outted and resigned.) The movie “Outrage” which was done by gays to out politicians who are gay and vote against gay programs, had Crist in it. They also had Craig, another married gay.They both deny for political reasons but the movie people say they have testimony from people who had sex with them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/43 "2010-04-29T01:27:26Z")
In Crist’s career to date, his sexual orientation has never been an issue in any election in which he has run. No opponent (or supporter) has ever made it an issue. But it **will** be an election issue this year, if there’s really a three-way Senate race. He’s gonna get it from both sides. (And not even **enjoy** it! ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/44 "2010-04-29T01:30:58Z")
I see no reason why Democrats should get excited about this. Crist is a garden-variety Rebublican, and should he be elected as an independent, he will caucus with and will vote with Republicans in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/45 "2010-04-29T01:40:43Z")
You know, I just found out today that [Kendrick Meek](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendrick_Meek) (the likeliest Democratic nominee for the Senate seat) is African-American. And I flashed on [Doug Jamerson,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Jamerson) whom you’ve probably never heard of even if you’re a Floridian. He was the state Commissioner of Education 1993-94 – ordinarily an elected position, but Jamerson was appointed to it by Governor Chiles after the incumbent CoE, Betty Castor, resigned to take a job as president of the University of South Florida. Jamerson ran for actual election to the post in 1994 and, being an AA, carefully kept his picture off all his campaign literature; but the campaign of Republican candidate Frank Brogan made very sure the voters knew what Jamerson’s race was, and he lost. He might have lost if he were white, it was a Republican year; but I’ve always believed that if race were not a factor, most voters would have stayed with the incumbent for an office few of them think about much. OTOH, Florida’s electoral votes went for Obama in 2008. Have things in Florida changed enough that an **openly** black candidate could win a statewide office? I dunno. So, in November, Florida’s voters will have a choice between a n_ **r, a fg, and a N** _\*\*\*\*\*\*l. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/46 "2010-04-29T01:41:04Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The movie “Outrage” which was done by gays to out politicians who are gay and vote against gay programs, had Crist in it. They also had Craig, another married gay.They both deny for political reasons but the movie people say they have testimony from people who had sex with them. Craig had already been arrested for soliciting sex in a men’s bathroom when Outrage came out, so outting him wasn’t exactly a huge coup. But I don’t really find random people claiming to have sex with minor celebrities very convincing evidence one way or another. Name just about any male celebrity on the planet and I can find you a gay man whose claimed to have sex with them. Claiming to have sex with slightly famous people is the gay version of “I once caught a fish _this_ big”. > [@Frank](#): > > I see no reason why Democrats should get excited about this. Crist is a garden-variety Rebublican, and should he be elected as an independent, he will caucus with and will vote with Republicans in the Senate. He’s still more moderate then Rubio, who almost certainly would’ve won the election if Crist had just dropped out after the primary. And a three-way race at least opens the possibility that the Dem candidate will win (though its still a longshot). So its an improvement in the situation from the Dem point of view, even if only a small one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/47 "2010-04-29T01:46:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I see no reason why Democrats should get excited about this. Crist is a garden-variety Rebublican, and should he be elected as an independent, he will caucus with and will vote with Republicans in the Senate. But he’ll keep Rubio out and show the weakness of the hard-right. That’s something. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/48 "2010-04-29T03:16:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Hijack, but no he didn’t. He vetoed an education bill that would have gutted public education in Florida. I have no problem with the idea of merit-based pay for teachers, but this was a bad bill. > > Crist’s biggest problem is that he _wants_ to be moderate, but has created a mixed record for himself by following, not leading. > > Tangentially related to the OP, he may also be the first more or less generally acknowledged (although not admitted) gay man in US history to hold a governorship. It used to fascinate me that the man who achieved that milestone was Republican, but after reflection, it now seems inevitable. I don’t know. There have been rumors swirling about Rick Perry for years. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/49 "2010-04-29T03:24:25Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Hijack, but no he didn’t. He vetoed an education bill that would have gutted public education in Florida. I have no problem with the idea of merit-based pay for teachers, but this was a bad bill. “Gutted public education in Florida” is a bit of hyperbole, don’t you think? There were some flaws in the bill, but let’s get that merit pay system in place and then tweak the bad parts. But Crist favored this bill from the outset. The legislature spent months and many dollars putting this bill together, but in the end, Crist showed his true colors by being a political whore and listening to the teachers unions, once again putting his finger to the wind to check the direction. Had he really been concerned about the bill, he could have worked with the legislature and produced a quality merit pay system to make Florida the leader in this area. But he doesn’t think like that. The guy has no character, or no core values. He does what he thinks is best for Charlie Crist at that particular moment. Yesterday the bill was good for him, today he thinks not, so he vetoes it. He’s a Republican, but now that he can’t be a U.S. Senator in the party, he will be an independent tomorrow. It’s all about Charlie ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/50 "2010-04-29T03:35:42Z")
Better Charlie than Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/51 "2010-04-29T04:53:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > “Gutted public education in Florida” is a bit of hyperbole, don’t you think? > > There were some flaws in the bill, but let’s get that merit pay system in place and then tweak the bad parts. > > But Crist favored this bill from the outset. The legislature spent months and many dollars putting this bill together, but in the end, Crist showed his true colors by being a political whore and listening to the teachers unions, once again putting his finger to the wind to check the direction. Had he really been concerned about the bill, he could have worked with the legislature and produced a quality merit pay system to make Florida the leader in this area. But he doesn’t think like that. That bill was rightly vetoed. It was pushed through by Republicans in the way that the Teabaggers are bitching about with the Healthcare bill. Not one teacher was willing to come out in favor of it. If it’s the right thing to do, they can go back and get it right in the next session. Florida lawbooks are laden with half-assed legislation that was just going to be “tweaked” later and seldom is. I’m not wild about Meeks, Crist or Rubio, but there have been too many carpet bag Republicans swinging down to rub off on Rubio. I really don’t like Romney or others coming down to tell a sitting Governor to get out of the race. What the hell has Romney or Guiliani got to do with Florida? Neither did that well here in the last election cycle, iirc. Just go away and leave our politics to the local criminals. Maybe Ray Sansome should have run for Governor so we could put a true Republican values guy in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/52 "2010-04-29T12:34:41Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > That bill was rightly vetoed. It was pushed through by Republicans in the way that the Teabaggers are bitching about with the Healthcare bill. Not one teacher was willing to come out in favor of it. If it’s the right thing to do, they can go back and get it right in the next session. Florida lawbooks are laden with half-assed legislation that was just going to be “tweaked” later and seldom is. Fair point, but that wasn’t Charlie’s beef with it. He was all in favor of the bill when he thought that it would score points for him in the GOP primary. > [@](#): > > I’m not wild about Meeks, Crist or Rubio, but there have been too many carpet bag Republicans swinging down to rub off on Rubio. I really don’t like Romney or others coming down to tell a sitting Governor to get out of the race. What the hell has Romney or Guiliani got to do with Florida? Neither did that well here in the last election cycle, iirc. Just go away and leave our politics to the local criminals. Maybe Ray Sansome should have run for Governor so we could put a true Republican values guy in Washington. Meh. It’s a close US Senate race. You will always have national big wigs sticking their nose in these in any state. When the local criminals want to be national criminals, they have to pay the piper. I’m not saying I agree with it, but that criticism could be directed anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/53 "2010-04-29T21:40:26Z")
Quite so. I doubt Giuliani’s endorsement will do much for Rubio anyway; Giuliani turns off values voters quicker than most Democrats. Remember when the Freepers banned everyone who tried to shill for him in 2008? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/54 "2010-04-29T21:55:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Quite so. I doubt Giuliani’s endorsement will do much for Rubio anyway; Giuliani turns off values voters quicker than most Democrats. Remember when the Freepers banned everyone who tried to shill for him in 2008? Meh, who can keep up with the list of who they’re banning this time? Their Purge The Enemies Of The People mentality makes Josef Stalin look like Barney the Purple Dinosaur. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/55 "2010-04-29T21:55:12Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Craig had already been arrested for soliciting sex in a men’s bathroom when Outrage came out, so outting him wasn’t exactly a huge coup. But I don’t really find random people claiming to have sex with minor celebrities very convincing evidence one way or another. Name just about any male celebrity on the planet and I can find you a gay man whose claimed to have sex with them. Claiming to have sex with slightly famous people is the gay version of “I once caught a fish _this_ big”. > > He’s still more moderate then Rubio, who almost certainly would’ve won the election if Crist had just dropped out after the primary. And a three-way race at least opens the possibility that the Dem candidate will win (though its still a longshot). So its an improvement in the situation from the Dem point of view, even if only a small one. It was not just someone saying it. These people are gay and have an accumulated insider knowledge about these people. It is not relevant unless someone opponent tries to out Crist during the race. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/56 "2010-04-29T22:01:20Z")
What is interesting is the Repub Right seems to be purging Repubs who are not conservative or religious enough for them. If they succeed, will they have enough voters to win the elections. Will the mainstream repubs just hold their noses and go along? Will they vote for the independent? Will they stay home? It might really be time for a 3rd party to form. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/57 "2010-04-29T22:32:27Z")
[Crist is officially running as an Independent](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575214651796239966.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5) How does this fall out now? Does Crist split the Dem vote, the Republican vote, or both? Good news for Meek, Rubio or Charlie? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/58 "2010-04-29T22:45:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, in November, Florida’s voters will have a choice between a n_ **r, a fg, and a N** _\*\*\*\*\*\*l. 😉 What does N\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*l stand for? Is Rubio really a Narwhal? > [@jayjay](#): > > How does this fall out now? Does Crist split the Dem vote, the Republican vote, or both? Good news for Meek, Rubio or Charlie? Splits the Republican vote and takes some independents. Depending on how strong Rubio looks around election day, you might see a Lieberman type situation, where Democrats abandon Meek for Crist to keep Rubio out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/59 "2010-04-30T00:14:27Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > [Crist is officially running as an Independent](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575214651796239966.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5) > > How does this fall out now? Does Crist split the Dem vote, the Republican vote, or both? Good news for Meek, Rubio or Charlie? [NYT analysis:](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/us/politics/29cristcaucus.html?src=me) > [@](#): > > \*\*Kendrick Meek, Democrat > > Biggest Advantage:\*\* > > No one would seem to benefit more from a Crist run as an independent than Kendrick Meek, for one simple reason: the numbers are on his side. There are at least 650,000 more registered Democrats in Florida than Republicans, and assuming Mr. Meek wins the primary and registration continues along its expected path, that lead would amount to about two percentage points in November. If he does better with Democratic voters than either Mr. Crist or Mr. Rubio do with Republicans — and Mr. Crist does not win nearly every independent vote — Mr. Meek becomes Florida’s next senator. > > “If we had told anyone we are looking seriously at Florida this time last year, they would have said, ‘what’s wrong with you?’ ” said Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. “And look at how the dynamics of that race has changed.” > > **Biggest Challenge:** > > Name recognition; Though he is a congressman, Mr. Meek remains relatively unknown outside his Miami district. “Meek has been in the race for 17 months, collected 120,000 petitions and still has roughly the same name ID as he had when he started,” Mr. Schale said. He has about $3.7 million in his campaign coffers and will need much more to make himself a well-known brand. “There is a reason why very few candidates win one of the principal statewide offices on their first run,” Mr. Schale said. “He will need to spend a lot to introduce himself.” > \*\*Marco Rubio, Republican > > Biggest Advantage:\*\* > > Mr. Rubio’s rise from long-shot to front-runner came quickly, and he enters the race with the energetic support of Tea Party activists and the G.O.P. establishment. Republicans in Washington and Tallahassee are gunning for Mr. Crist after years of frustration with what they see as his selfish, poll-following approach — and Mr. Rubio’s campaign advisors believe that independents will either join their cause or stay away. “Current turn-out intensity among G.O.P. voters in Florida is far higher than either Democrat or independent voters, meaning independents could make up an even smaller percentage of the actual vote on Election Day,” two Rubio advisors wrote in a memo on Wednesday. “Secondly, it is a mistake to assume that independent voters are politically moderate. In fact, survey after survey this year has found that voter anger about Washington spending and the growth of government is every bit as high among independent voters as it is among Republicans.” > > **Biggest Challenge:** > > The Tea Party is not enough: Mr. Rubio has said he would not change his fiery, fiscally conservative message for the general election, but the activist wing of the Republican Party is not enough to get him to victory. There are signs that he has already moderated his approach — this week he criticized the new Arizona immigration law. If he goes too far to the middle, he angers his most ardent fans. If he does not go far enough, he may lose the swing voters in places like the Route I-4 corridor between Tampa and Orlando, where recent Florida elections have been won. > \*\*Charlie Crist, No Party Affiliation > > Biggest Advantage:\*\* > > Everyone knows Mr. Crist. He has served for more than a decade in public office, and his approval ratings are higher than those of some other governors in states suffering greatly from the recession. His everyman appeal (complete with flowered shirts, opposition to rate hikes from utilities and insurance companies, and “I feel your pain” expressions) now combines with his ability to say he is running against partisan extremism. And with his veto of a controversial education bill tying teacher pay to student performance, he now has a high-profile example that is already paying dividends. > > Several teachers joined him on stage with him for his announcement. “We are a very loyal bunch of people,” said Andy Ford, president of Florida’s largest teachers union. “A lot of people are thinking we owe him this because he stood up for us.” > > **Biggest Challenge:** > > Money and infrastructure: When Senator Joseph I. Lieberman ran and won as an independent in Connecticut four years ago, he had a national fund-raising base among the Jewish community, and a trusted campaign staff. Mr. Crist, has about $7.6 million on hand but by bolting the Republican Party he loses growth potential. “It takes $20 million to be competitive and he is going to have huge defections from his fundraiser base,” said Randy Nielsen, a Republican consultant in West Palm Beach. “The turnstiles will be busier than a New York subway at 5 o’clock.” This could matter greatly down the stretch. Mr. Lieberman’s campaign, for example, focused heavily on simple logistics — recruiting poll workers and running utilitarian advertisements pointing out where he could be found on the ballot. Mr. Crist, in a state filled with older voters, may need precious dollars to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703/60 "2010-04-30T01:00:13Z")
Who refers to interstates as “Route I-xx”? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dope-on-fl-senate-election/536703.md?page=4)