# Doper China hands: question about the Chinese education system. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 4, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466 "2010-07-04T00:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466/21 "2010-07-05T06:15:17Z")
> [@](#): > > And I’ve always wanted to hate men forever, so that works out perfectly. > Reply With Quote It’s hard to imagine how anyone who has spent time close to traditional patriarchal societies could do anything but. I’m a man and I hate men forever. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466/22 "2010-07-05T10:19:46Z")
To me, the expression “to be an old X hand” or “to be an old hand at X” (meaning “to know X very well from long experience”) is a reasonably common one. I’m surprised that someone even moderately well read would not know that phrase. Maybe this is just a case of my having read or watched different things than other people here, but I’m baffled that someone here should not know this expression. In any case, it now appears to me that the term “old China hand” has a more specific meaning: > **[China Hands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Hands)** > > The term China Hand originally referred to 19th-century merchants in the treaty ports of China, but came to be used for anyone with expert knowledge of the language, culture, and people of China. In 1940s America, the term China Hands came to refer to a group of American diplomats, journalists, and soldiers who were known for their knowledge of China and influence on American policy before, during, and after World War II. During and after the Cold War, the term China watcher became popularized: ... ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466/23 "2010-07-05T14:26:51Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > To me, the expression “to be an old X hand” or “to be an old hand at X” (meaning “to know X very well from long experience”) is a reasonably common one. I’m surprised that someone even moderately well read would not know that phrase. Maybe this is just a case of my having read or watched different things than other people here, but I’m baffled that someone here should not know this expression. Keep in mind that English is not my first language. This board is the first place I’ve ever heard the expression “China hand”, and even “old hand” is not something I’ve heard often if ever, though I’d probably figure it out from the context. And: > [@Isamu](#): > > No, it’s a fairly common old (British?) expression referring to people who are “experienced” in all matters China (and can also be used in reference to other Asian areas). It’s usually used in reference to expatriots who liaise between the motherland and China/Asia. > [@Koxinga](#): > > More specifically, I believe it refers (at least in some contexts) to the bunch of American academics and policy wonks who dealt with China in the 30s and 40s, and who had a great deal of blame heaped on them for “losing” China in 1949. See Edgar Snow, Owen Lattimore et. al. Now see, that’s why I was asking. I gathered “China hands” probably referred to Westerners familiar with China (as opposed to Chinese people themselves), but in some contexts it appears to refer particularly to a certain group of Westerners in China. That’s interesting to know. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466/24 "2010-07-05T15:35:19Z")
> [@nani](#): > > …Lots of people seek to marry people with big city hu kous (especially Beijing) for this reason also… The Soviet Union had a similiar setup to China’s. Moscow and Leningrad (& the Baltic republics) were extremely desirable places to live and the residents made extremely desirable marriage partners because of this. People even engaged in platonic “in name only” marriages just to live there (& also it was easier to be assigned housing if married). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-china-hands-question-about-the-chinese-education-system/545466.md?page=1)