# Doper Diplomacy - Fall and Winter 2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 28, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858 "2002-08-28T01:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/421 "2002-10-16T02:05:55Z")
The Winter 1904 map is up, in the usual place. Spring 1905 moves are due Friday at 5am EDT. And I _like_ having talk of møøses and Halloween parties in my Dip thread, thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/422 "2002-10-16T02:07:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > It’s how I keep my girlish figure. Who’s the girl, Roseanne? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/423 "2002-10-16T02:24:23Z")
Hey! I’m from Chicago but I’m not ‘from Chicago’ if you know what I mean. Though there are times I’d kill for a good Vienna Dog. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/424 "2002-10-16T02:51:25Z")
**WL** , at least it was quick and painless. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/425 "2002-10-16T04:36:43Z")
Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/426 "2002-10-16T10:26:14Z")
Austria stabs Italy and France leaps back from the dead. They size each other up across the corpse of Germany with Italy an interested spectator. Russia builds (I withdraw earlier ROTFL comment, just shows how useless my forecasting ability is), Turkey holds back the Hapsburg hordes and England hangs on for grim death. The expected Austrian walkover seems to have stumbled and the game will be prolonged. **England (Weirddave)**: Despite your days being numbered, the fight continues. Hang in there, you can still annoy the Hell out of the French. **France (Omniscient)**: An extraordinary recovery, aided no doubt by an accommodation of some sort with Austria (don’t trust him, you know it makes sense), sees a build that should finish off England. An alliance with Russia and possibly Italy (stranger things have happened) could yet see Austria halted and the tide turned. **Germany (White Lightning)**: Scene – Switzerland, a remote hunting lodge in the Alps. The army’s former chief of staff, von Schlieffen, is reporting to the former Kaiser Wilhem II. Ex-Kaiser Bill: “Vell von Schlieffen, how goes ze var.” Von Schlieffen: “Zere ist some gut news und some bad news, your ex-Kaisership.” Ex-Kaiser Bill: “Ze gut news?” Von Schlieffen: “Ve haff defeated ze rats. Ze traps and ze cat have seen ze little buggers off. Ze forests are stocked mit deer und rabbits. Ze dogs are vell trained and your hunting rifles haff arrived. Ze bankers haff confirmed zat your money is safe.” Ex-Kaiser Bill: “Gut. Und ze bad news?” Von Schlieffen: “Ve appear to haff a drainage problem. Zat is vhat is causing ze smell. I zink ve need to get a plumber.” Ex-Kaiser Bill: “Very vell.” Lights up his cigar and contemplates his brandy. “Ah, retirement. Vhy did I not retire sooner?” Von Schlieffen: “Zat is vhat a lot of Germans are zinking.” ::: ducks & runs::: **Italy (Jonathan Chance)**: Oops, Venice has rejoined the old Holy Roman Empire. The Frogs are fighting back and it looks suspiciously like they’re allied to the Austrians. Time is short, options are limited, friends are few and far between (England and, erm, that’s about it, I think). I _told_ you not to trust the Austrians. And did you listen? **Austria (Abe Babe)**: I thought it was a cock up with the Sevastopol move but on reflection it looks like a cunning plan to shut off all supply centres to the Turks. Good move. Turkey will be hard to deal with, might have to settle for just blocking them and concentrate on Italy, Russia and Germany (now merely a georaphical expression). France’s recovery looks imminent and suddenly the much touted Austrian victory is less clear. **Russia (Steve)**: After the October Revolution saw the decadent Maeglinoff dynasty deposed, the new Soviet government under Chief Commissar Steve has slowed down the decline of the Russian Empire. Allying with France should allow the army in Denmark to get to Livonia and threaten the Austrians in Moscow. Austria can be fought. **Turkey (ShibbOleth)**: Excerpt from “Ask uncle Klemens”, an agony aunt(?) column ghost written by the late Prince Klemens von Metternich. Ali Pasha, vizier to the Ottoman Empire: “Dear uncle Klemens. I Ignored your advice and Turkey fights on. Up yours.” Uncle Klemens: “Dear Ali. My apologies. It appears my secretary had got things wrong. She was publishing my advice to Germany in reply to your questions. My advice to you is: Surrender. Next!” * * * Go Alien – Proven incompetent in the field of strategic advice. And doesn’t know the Monty P elk reference (Not all Brits are MPFS cognoscenti). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/427 "2002-10-16T13:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\* > > You’re a wimp, Shibb! > > \ > > Now. Are you in or no? \*\* There’s a $98 weekend roundtrip _this_ weekend from Cincy to Washington-National. If they run it again next weekend I could be in. Familial obligations notwithstanding. Doesn’t look like I’ll be too busy issuing orders for Dip 1040. I just wish we had **go alien** ’s perspective on Dip 1046 so that I could chuckle with a little more gusto. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/428 "2002-10-16T14:18:33Z")
**ShibbOleth** , Do you have a link for 1046? Slow day at work and I could do with some entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/429 "2002-10-16T14:58:37Z")
1046 isn’t on the web page. It’s only in secret encoded messages sent by our illustrious GM. If you want, I would send you a whole slew of 150k messages with maps and moves. At first I was kicking myself for not taking St. Pete’s and allowing Russia to build there. Then comprehension set in, and I realized what a disaster it would have been to have Russia build in Moscow. I guess a build of F StP(nc) was too much to hope for, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/430 "2002-10-16T15:16:26Z")
**Abe** , don’t bother with sending vast numbers of pages & maps & things. It was only an idle request to fill in the rest of the afternoon. Since there’s only one hour to go, I’ll survive. Do you mean that Abe’s All Austrian Sevastopol Standoff wan’t intentional? It looked like a good trick to keep you units positioned without losing a supply centre to Turkey. Mind you, I reckon Turkey can hold you off for a long time, now that you are fighting everybody in reach at once. If Russia and France ally against you, it’s gonna be a long hard slog to win. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/431 "2002-10-16T15:21:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Go alien \* > \*\ ***ShibbOleth** , Do you have a link for 1046? Slow day at work and I could do with some entertainment. \*\* I you e-mail me I could forward you at least the last adjudication. Not sure if I’ve kept all of the maps sent by **Weirddave** , although he probably has the full set. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/432 "2002-10-16T15:55:27Z")
**Go alien** the bounce was intentional. I thought Turkey might get aggressive, rather then turtle up. When Russia got his build, St. Pete’s was open, and I thought “Crikeys! I should have taken St. Pete’s.” About 10 seconds later, I thought “Crikeys! I’m glad I didn’t take St. Pete’s” It is a tough road, although getting another fleet out there has long been a dream of mine. Austria is now the supreme naval power in the Mediterranean. Groovy, Baby! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/433 "2002-10-16T16:39:52Z")
You don’t often here the words “Austria” and “supreme naval power” in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/434 "2002-10-16T17:18:28Z")
OK, just for you alien, I’ve uploaded the current map [here](http://fff.fathom.org/pages/Walcher/George.JPG), and last turn’s is [here](http://fff.fathom.org/pages/Walcher/previous.JPG). The winter builds were: Austria: Build A Trieste England: Build F Edinburgh France: Build F Brest Russia: Remove F Black Sea Analyze away! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/435 "2002-10-16T18:32:54Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t often here the words “Austria” and “supreme naval power” in the same sentence. Indeed. But there’s been so little fleet action in this game, that it doesn’t take much. It’s been a very land-based game so far. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/436 "2002-10-16T22:52:38Z")
OK, I’ll tell you guys what. If **Weirddave** sends me all the maps, and the move orders (presuming he saved them) and Nate sets me up with access to his website, I’ll be plenty happy to c&p in all the moves. Having just seen that map, and noticing that Turkey is a serious player and somehow France is in _Venice_ of all places, I’ve got to see how this panned out, and I’d find **Go Alien** ’s analysis riveting. Dave, use this address if you are game: [b\_gabrielson@yahoo.com](mailto:b_gabrielson@yahoo.com) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/437 "2002-10-17T01:21:18Z")
Omni, I don’t have all the old moves and maps saved. However… Do you have Realpolitick? If so, I can send you the game file, and you can get all of them with the history tab. Lemmie know. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/438 "2002-10-17T02:25:50Z")
Gentlemen, Because of this: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=139871](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=139871) I’ve asked Dave for an extension on 1046. Just a day or two. I hope no one minds. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/439 "2002-10-17T02:27:12Z")
Dave, I don’t have Realpolitick, is it a free d/l? If so I can install it and set it up, presuming the learning curve isn’t too steep. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/440 "2002-10-17T02:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Omniscient \* > Having just seen that map, and noticing that Turkey is a serious player … Gee, thanks **Omni**. 😉 I just forwarded you all the emails containing the complete orders and maps. I don’t think most retreats are included, so you’ll just have to figure those out yourself I suppose. Enjoy. Good luck with that, **JC**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858.md?page=23)