# Doper Diplomacy - Fall and Winter 2002 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 28, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858 "2002-08-28T01:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/141 "2002-09-21T11:59:28Z")
Yeah, that’s the same thing I do. I save the game, then make fictional retreats, then post the builds/disbands. Saves time, I think. My players seem to like it. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/142 "2002-09-21T14:27:11Z")
Italy, I bow before your scheming and duplicitous nature. I don’t know if the overall strategy is going to work, but getting that army into Burgundy like that is pretty darned impressive. (Singing!) He’ll be goin’ round the mountain… ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/143 "2002-09-21T15:06:59Z")
Yeah, that was a pretty clever move. It _almost_ makes up for the non-move in round 1. Wish I could say the same for myself. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/144 "2002-09-21T20:09:50Z")
Germany’s army that the Fightin’ Frogs dislodged from Belgium has retreated to Picardy. That ends the Fall 1902 move, and the [map](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/rtfirefly/F02.html) has been updated. Winter builds and disbands are due Monday at 5am EDT. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/145 "2002-09-21T21:14:21Z")
Thank you, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/146 "2002-09-22T14:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > **I’ve thrown up a basic Dip 104** 6_\* page [here](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/rtfirefly/weirddave/index46.htm), for now, to help the denizens and kibitzers of that game view things. > > \*\* What, no kibbitzing on this one? IIRC there is a Monday, 9 am deadline for Fall moves on this one. Don’t miss it just because you’re having too much fun this weekend. **Weirddave** , can you confirm that’s the deadline we’re working against? ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/147 "2002-09-22T18:27:48Z")
Monday is my understanding in Dip 1046 as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/148 "2002-09-23T09:18:11Z")
At the [usual place](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/rtfirefly/). Next deadline’s Wednesday morning - a tight Diplomacy period, given how interesting things are. So wake up and get to it, campers! ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/149 "2002-09-23T10:39:04Z")
Western Europe gets messier and messier. The alliance of the game so far appears to be Italy and Austria. England failed to defend against France, France suddenly finds her Italian allies weren’t that closely allied after all. Germany persuaded the Italian tourists to go on a coach tour of the Burgundian vineyards. Russia couldn’t resist the delights of Copenhagen and stabbed Germany. Austria strides forward, into Bulgaria but now has Germany in its sights. Turkey continues to get ground down but there is hope… er, not really. **England (Weirddave)**: Just thought I’d share this with you. The correct move was A (Norway) to Edinburgh, convoyed by F (North Sea), F (London) to Wales and F (Barents Sea) to Norway. This would have positioned you to evict the Frogs in 1903. You’d lose Norway but that’s gone anyway. Mind you, I have only just thought of it. Isn’t hindsight wonderful? I wonder if the Germans are open to a friendly conversation… **France (Omniscient)**: Good moves but fleet in Marseilles? I reckon an army was the optimum build but it is marginal. The army gives you more options now, the fleet more options later. But with two Italian armies poised to hit Marseilles, I reckon there is a danger of there being no “later”. Pissing off the English and Germans was not a good idea after all, and now the Italians are after you as well. Marseilles will become Italian. Deal with it. **Germany (White Lightning)**: Scene – Berlin, the Reichstag. The army’s chief of staff, von Schlieffen, is reporting to Kaiser Wilhem II. Von Schlieffen: “Zere ist some gut news und some bad news, your Kaisership.” Kaiser Bill: “Ze gut news ist?” Von Schlieffen: “Ze Italians haf left Munich and are visiting Burgundy. My plan, vich history vill no doubt remember as ze “Schlieffen Plan”, continues to vork. Field grey ist ze colour of ze moment in Picardy und Paris ist ze next stop. Kaiser Bill: “Gut. And ze bad news?” Von Schlieffen (looks at the, by now familiar, interesting pattern on carpet and shuffles feet guiltily): “Ah. It appears zat a regatta is being held in Denmark.” Kaiser Bill: “Und vhy is zat bad news?” Von Schlieffen (knowing, from experience, that he has a head start): “Zere are no German participants. Only Russians. Und no yachts. Zey brought some other ships instead. Battleships, cruisers, destroyers, torpedo boats, submarines…” ::: ducks & runs::: **Italy (Jonathon Chance)**: Good stabbing! And at last, a supply centre. Finally the Italians realise what they are supposed to be doing. As long as Austria and Germany are friends, France is vulnerable. When your fleets go west, Iberia becomes Italian. Germany is friendly but the Russian advance will probably divert attention away from France. You need to be quick against France, before Germany crumbles. After sampling Burgundy (pick up any good Chablis?), Marseilles looks inviting. Always remember the following – wear clean underwear every day, look both ways before crossing the road and F (Tunis) to West Med to cut Spanish support of Marseilles next turn. **Austria (Abe Babe)**: Stalemate against Turkey but Germany (Munich) looks open. I’d have built a fleet in Trieste. It might have worried the Italians but given you the edge against Turkey. Right now, you are dependent on Russian attacks to open up Turkey for you. A difficult year ahead, with little to gain other than Munich while watching Italy and Russia drive onwards. **Russia (Maeglin)**: How far can you trust Austria? Key question, given the vulnerability of Russia to an Austrian stab. Germany is open, England is collapsing and you should get Norway this year. Turkey will fall but it requires some good work. I’d assume Turkey is expecting an attack on Ankara and will move F (Black Sea) to defend. So, instead, move F (Armenia) to Black Sea and A (Sevastopol) to Armenia to reposition your forces. If it works, Turkey is at your mercy. If it doesn’t, I accept no liability. **Turkey (ShibbOleth)**: Excerpt from “Ask uncle Klemens”, an agony aunt(?) column ghost written by the late Prince Klemens von Metternich. Ali Pasha, vizier to the Ottoman Empire: “Dear uncle Klemens, my bestest friend has stopped taking my calls. Instead he has taken Bulgaria. What should I do?” Uncle Klemens: “Dear Ali. Surrender. Next!” * * * Go Alien – purveyor of strategic advice and general shit-stirring 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/150 "2002-09-23T11:48:13Z")
Damn, he’s scary, isn’t he folks? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/151 "2002-09-23T11:51:11Z")
I find **Go alien** ’s perspective quiet entertaining. It’s good to be able to smile whilst barbarians are at the gate. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/152 "2002-09-23T12:47:35Z")
**Go alien** , I’m enjoying your analyses. Keep 'em coming! Moving links forward to page 4, for easier reading: [Cat23 Diplomacy Game Free State 10(W-)40](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/rtfirefly/) page. Rudimentary [Dip 1046](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip/rtfirefly/weirddave/index46.htm) page, up for adoption. [Cat23](http://www.cat23.com/cat23/) and [diplom.org](http://www.diplom.org/) pages, packed with resources. And [the official Dip rules](http://www.hasbro.com/instruct/Diplomacy.PDF), in PDF format. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/153 "2002-09-23T17:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Go alien \* > \*\*The alliance of the game so far appears to be Italy and Austria. \*\* Hey, Abe! Did you see this? Do we trust each other? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/154 "2002-09-23T18:53:40Z")
Well, you’ve demilitarized your common border, which is always a good start. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/155 "2002-09-23T19:08:18Z")
It does appear as though Austria could stab Italy but it would be difficult for Italy to succesfully stab Austria. But both sides appear to be tied up with other concerns for now. Like smashing Turkey. Yikes. Anyone heard from **weirddave** on Dip 1046? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/156 "2002-09-23T19:25:26Z")
Haven’t heard anything from him about 1046, since I’m not in that game, but he submitted his Winter 1902 orders in Dip 1040 just after midnight last night. So if he’s dropped off the face of the earth, it only just happened. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/157 "2002-09-23T19:29:09Z")
Dave’s out on call right now. He said he’d be back 3-ish. Shibb- How can I be concentrated on destroying Turkey? The nearest unit I have is 3 (count 'em) **three** turns away from the nearest Turkish supply center. Don’t you think I have enough on my plate right now? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/158 "2002-09-23T19:40:13Z")
Just got the 1046 adjudication. Abe, you ain’t going to heaven. And that looks NASTY in the A/I/G axis there. Make up your minds! ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/159 "2002-09-23T21:15:51Z")
How come when you do it, successfully, it is fine gamesmanship, but when I do it, it’s somehow bad. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858/160 "2002-09-23T21:19:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\* > How can I be concentrated on destroying Turkey? The nearest unit I have is 3 (count 'em) **three** turns away from the nearest Turkish supply center. > > Don’t you think I have enough on my plate right now? \*\* True, that wasn’t clear. It just seems like such a popular pasttime, I guess I thought that _all_ the cool kids were doing it. No, just **Abe** is focused on smashing Turkey. And Russia. Italy seems content to mess with the French and dominate the Mediterranean. I didn’t see Captain Corelli’s Violin but I’ve seen some other war movies about that area, and I’m pretty sure you’re just trying to get beneath Penelope Cruz’s skirts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-diplomacy-fall-and-winter-2002/125858.md?page=9)