# Doper Film Mavens: Must-See Silent Flicks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152 "2004-12-10T16:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/41 "2004-12-15T13:12:10Z")
I’ll second **Sunrise - A Tale of Two Humans**. I saw it for the first time almost by chance a couple of weeks ago on a big screen with a live soundtrack and was absolutely bowled over. The whole audience loved it and barely made a noise throughout the screening… It’s very melodramatic at times, but also has some great humorous touches. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/42 "2004-12-15T14:13:19Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Just about anything with **Fatty Arbuckle** in it. He was a gifted and engaging comedian; it is too bad his career ended in such grubby scandal. Actually, his career didn’t end; he worked continuously as a director and, eventually, an actor, again right up till his death. Virginia Rappe’s career ended; she was a promising actress who died because the party-goers were too concerned about their reputations and their party to get her proper medical care, and let her linger in agony for days before getting her to a hospital (I also blame the St. Francis Hotel doctor). Classic “blame the victim” scenario: after her death, she was painted as a cheap whore who got what she deserved, to make Arbuckle seem less guilty. (Of course, he wasn’t guilty of anything except neglect, same as everyone else at the party) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/43 "2004-12-15T18:44:46Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Actually, his career didn’t end; he worked continuously as a director and, eventually, an actor, again right up till his death. The stuff he directed was under a different name, right? And for much smaller movies. And when he finally re-appeared as an actor (11 years?) later, it was a small part. That’s ending a career. Moreover, all his Fatty Arbuckle films were taken out of circulation in the U.S., and mostly lost. The collections that are out there now are taken largely from European prints, with the “title cards” removed and replaced with English translations. That’s more than ending a career - it damn near expunged it from the record. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/44 "2004-12-15T23:33:59Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Moreover, all his Fatty Arbuckle films were taken out of circulation in the U.S., and mostly lost. The collections that are out there now are taken largely from European prints, with the “title cards” removed and replaced with English translations. I recall reading that about 90% of all the silent films ever made have been either partially or completely lost. ☹ In those days films were considered commercial product, not art, and efforts to archive and preserve them were, shall we say, not top notch. I think the source for this was _Lost Films: Important Movies that Disappeared_ by Frank T. Thompson. I’ve read that this was the reason Alaska was such a fertile hunting ground for old film collectors for quite some time. Alaska was generally the end of the road when a film was distributed and exhibited, and the studios often told the exhibitors just to send them their share of the receipts without bothering to return the film. Also, the generally colder climate tended to preserve the films better. Take it with a grain of salt. I can’t remember where I read it. I can’t help wondering how much great work by great actors and directors has been lost to us. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/45 "2004-12-16T00:13:14Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I saw it for the first time almost by chance a couple of weeks ago on a big screen with a live soundtrack A live recording? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/46 "2004-12-16T01:20:42Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The stuff he directed was under a different name, right? And for much smaller movies. And when he finally re-appeared as an actor (11 years?) later, it was a small part. You’re right about him [directing under a pseudonym](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000779/), but his return to acting was as the headliner of a series of short subjects, and he had (according to every source I’ve seen, at any rate) signed a feature-film contract just before his sudden death. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/47 "2004-12-16T01:23:46Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I recall reading that about 90% of all the silent films ever made have been either partially or completely lost. That may be factually true, but it needs qualification. That percentage includes thousands of early “actualities” films of the 1890s and 1900s that were only a minute or two long: trains going through mountain passes, Niagara Falls falling, the Prussian army on maneuvers, traffic on Broadway, people at the beach, fire departments to the rescue. While it’s a shame that any of those are lost, they can’t be equated with the loss of a feature from the 1920s. The good news is that, for the most part, the better silent features _have_ survived. For example, of the _New York Times_’ twenty picks of the top ten movies for 1924 and 1925, sixteen exist today. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/48 "2004-12-16T01:27:08Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > That may be factually true, but it needs qualification. That percentage includes thousands of early “actualities” films of the 1890s and 1900s that were only a minute or two long: trains going through mountain passes, Niagara Falls falling, the Prussian army on maneuvers, traffic on Broadway, people at the beach, fire departments to the rescue. While it’s a shame that any of those are lost, they can’t be equated with the loss of a feature from the 1920s. > > The good news is that, for the most part, the better silent features _have_ survived. For example, of the _New York Times_’ twenty picks of the top ten movies for 1924 and 1925, sixteen exist today. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/49 "2004-12-16T14:54:28Z")
There’s a heartbreaking short from the '30s called _Ghost Town: The Fort Lee Story_ (oddly enough, I can’t find it on IMDB, even though I have a copy on video!). It’s very amatuerish, but it tours the ruins of the silent studios 15 years after they’d closed up and moved West: falling-down sound stages, piles of film reels left out to disintegrate in the open. At one point one of the filmmakers picks up a reel of film left laying on the ground and unspools it. Theda Bara made most of her films in Fort Lee, it might have been her _Cleopatra_, or _Salome_ . . . ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/50 "2004-12-16T16:50:21Z")
Not silent, but the first Charlie Chan movie is lost. That’s like 1935 or thereabouts - probably not a great work of art, but a feature film nonetheless. Amazing how long it took before people really cared about preserving film. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/51 "2004-12-16T16:59:24Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Not silent, but the first Charlie Chan movie is lost. As a matter of fact, four of the first five Warren Oland Charlie Chans are missing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/52 "2004-12-16T19:21:46Z")
**The Great Circus Mystery** (1925) starring **Joe “The Dumbest Man in Hollywood” Bonomo** is likewise thought lost to posterity. I do remember reading in his autobiography that he had the last remaining print of it in his personal collection. He died in 1978, I wonder if any of his family members retain that print? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/53 "2004-12-16T21:01:26Z")
A vault fire at Fox circa 1940 destroyed several of the Charlie Chan movies starring Warner Oland. Some pre-Oland Charlie Chan movies exist, e.g., _Behind That Curtain_ (1929). Because of that fire, many Fox pictures of the early 1930s look grainy compared to those of other studios of that era: the camera negatives are gone, and so today’s prints are made from second-generation materials. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/54 "2004-12-16T22:55:36Z")
Oh, another one - **[The Bat](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0016629/)** (1926). A fun movie, and I believe Bob Kane admitted that a lot of the inspiration for Batman came from this movie (although the title character is a bad guy). ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/55 "2004-12-17T02:50:17Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > A vault fire at Fox circa 1940 destroyed several of the Charlie Chan movies starring Warner Oland. Some pre-Oland Charlie Chan movies exist, e.g., _Behind That Curtain_ (1929). I can swear that that fire occured in 1937, in Little Ferrry. **Eve** would know- almost all of Theda Bara’s films were destroyed in that fire. **Walloon** , was it Warner Brothers or MGM that took the best care of their films? Sources I’ve read seem to differ. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/56 "2004-12-17T04:15:40Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > **Walloon** , was it Warner Brothers or MGM that took the best care of their films? Sources I’ve read seem to differ. Well, it appears that I’ve found the answer to my question [here](http://www.vitaphone.org/sfeatures.html) (Warning: Plays music), and, as far as late silents go, the winner was United Artists, which kept 80% of its’ late silent output (only 7 of 35 films lost). Second was (as I guessed) MGM, which has about a 70% survival rate (by my count, 53 of 176 films lost). ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152/57 "2004-12-17T06:34:58Z")
**Governor Quinn** , thanks for pinpointing the year of the fire in Little Ferry, NJ, that destroyed Fox’s film storage vault. That fire on July 9, 1937, took almost all of Fox’s pre-1935 negatives and protection masters. How sad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-film-mavens-must-see-silent-flicks/279152.md?page=2)