# Doper parents of 5th graders... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253 "2008-05-14T05:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/1 "2008-05-14T05:14:54Z")
what is the content of your child’s maths text ?? ( inspired by Leaffan’s daughter’s homework question , whch I think is too advanced for a 5th grader, or that we in India are far behind in teaching the right topics ). From my son’s 5th grade maths text ( he is 10 years 4 months) Large numbers ,roman numbers.rounding of numbers… Addition,subtraction,multiplication etc ( advanced than 4th grade),factors,multiples… fractions , multiplication,division etc. decimals and their addition,multiplication etc… Lines. angles their measurement… shapes, their perimeter ,area, measurement of volume temparature,money,measures of time, data collection and pictorial representation. How about you ?? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/2 "2008-05-14T05:18:53Z")
I remember my fifth grade teacher introducing us to long division and telling us it was the hardest thing we would learn in primary (elementary) school. I think we did pretty much everything short of algebra. We did that in the first year of high school, and then went on to trigonometry and other stuff. I am a mathematics ignoramus though, so my brain refused to accept any information from about 4th grade onwards. I could grok adding stuff up, but the rest of it just became swimming numbers on a page. I remain like that to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/3 "2008-05-14T13:56:51Z")
I know we learned long division in 4th grade. I don’t think I got most of that stuff until at least a few grades later. OT for a sec, has anyone seen that show Are you smarter than a 5th grader? Are the questions really things beginning elementary schoolers are supposed to know? When I was in 5th grade I didn’t know most of this stuff! ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/4 "2008-05-14T14:09:20Z")
We learned long division starting in 3rd grade (I still remember chanting estimate, multiply, compare, subtract, bring down, repeat), but I didn’t learn about pi until 6th grade. [QUOTE=Apocalypso] OT for a sec, has anyone seen that show Are you smarter than a 5th grader? Are the questions really things beginning elementary schoolers are supposed to know? When I was in 5th grade I didn’t know most of this stuff! [/QUOTE] I was trying to figure out how to get on that show because the questions were easy, but I am not very telegenic and I have a horrible, nasally voice. However, I was looking at a companion book in the bookstore one day, and the million dollar questions were pretty obscure and not part of a general 5th grade curriculum. For example, IIRC, they wanted to know if acne was an infection of a sebaceous gland or some other gland which I can’t remember. I happen to know that the correct answer is sebaceous, but it sure wasn’t anything I learned in school. FWIW, Rob ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/5 "2008-05-14T14:15:32Z")
I also learned long division in fourth grade, and we started very basic algebraic concepts in fifth. (For example, we’d see 5 + = 9 and have to fill in the box.) We had to do these by intuition – we didn’t start learning how to actually solve equations until seventh grade. As I recall, most of fifth and sixth grade was spent on sort of abstract problem-solving skills, including lots of word problems and logic exercises, which were meant to prepare us for the rigors of algebra and geometry which we started in middle school. (That’s 7th-8th or 7th-9th in most places in the US; these things vary a lot.) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/6 "2008-05-14T14:35:40Z")
I can _almost_ help. I’ve been editing a few supplementary curriculum guides, largely starting with sixth and seventh grade math and science and then up through high school. One of the purposes of the materials is to help individual school districts meet state standards, so while there are differences between states, it’s more a matter of semantics and not a sizable difference content-wise. All lessons describe what they consider prerequisites and are explicit when new material is introduced. As for **Indian** ’s list, it is safe to say that all my sixth grade materials have taken it for granted that students already know how to work with things on the list. This doesn’t mean that the students learn it in fifth grade, just that it is firmly established by sixth. If it sheds any further light on the subject (heh), one text just introduced Cartesian quadrants. Students had graphed before, but I was surprised they had only been exposed to graphing positive numbers. I’m fairly certain it wasn’t just applying the name, as part of the lesson plan involved overlaying two transparencies over each other to form the quadrants. I may have this out of context (I included a note in the file to double check this assumption), as later on students were also given their first exposure to \*\*y = \*mx \* + _b_, so it seemed a fast pace to go from graphing in other quadrants to working with slopes in the same unit (i.e., two week period). If you’re interested, many states have their curriculum requirements and standards on line. [Florida](http://www.fldoe.org/bii/curriculum/sss/) [Michigan](http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-28753_33232---,00.html) [California](http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7-140-28753_33232---,00.html) … Google “_state_ curriculum guide” and you should find others. Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/7 "2008-05-14T14:54:40Z")
In Fifth grade, my son was in a school using Everyday Mathematics. From [this website:](http://www.ucls.uchicago.edu/academics/ms/handbook/34.shtml) > [@](#): > > Everyday Mathematics - like all UCSMP textbooks uses a “spiral” approach to mathematics, in which concepts are introduced, re-introduced, and reviewed regularly throughout the year (as well as in later years). The following subjects are specifically covered in the fifth grade: > > ``` > * Numbers, numeration and order relations which include place value; reading and writing whole numbers and decimals; scientific notation with both large and small numbers; integers; fractions; equivalence; and relations (<, >, =). > * Measurement, measures and numbers in reference frames including basic measures (length, weight, capacity, time, and angles); compound measures (area, volume, density, and calories); and reference frames (ordinal numbers, time of day, dates, timelines, and thermometers). > * Operations, mental arithmetic, and number systems including arithmetic concepts (including meaning of operations), skills, and procedures; whole number facts and extensions (+, -, x, ÷); estimation; number theory (primes, composites, divisibility); and properties of numbers. > * Algorithms and procedures including multi-digit procedures for whole numbers and decimals; fraction operation procedures; and procedures with scientific calculators. > * Problem solving and mathematical modeling with mental and written arithmetic in problem contexts. > * Exploring data; finding or collecting data; using landmarks (maximum, minimum, mode, median, range); displaying data in tables, charts, graphs; and probability. > * Geometry and spatial sense including notations, definitions, and basic relationships for two and three-dimensional figures; basic metric properties of plane figures; and congruence, similarity and transformation of geometric figures. > * Patterns, rules and formulas including number and visual sequences; and formula models using variables. > * Algebra and uses of variables including properties of number systems; operations with positive and negative numbers; parentheses, order of operations; solving and writing of equations (open sentences); relations on number lines; and function models (rules, tables and coordinate graphs).[2] > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/8 "2008-05-14T14:55:06Z")
How about non US dopers ?? ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/9 "2008-05-14T15:08:00Z")
Rythm & whynot, Thanx … Rythm, what is your opinion on leaffan’s daughter’s syllabus ?? from whatever you can deduce from given info ?? ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/10 "2008-05-14T15:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=indian] From my son’s 5th grade maths text ( he is 10 years 4 months) Large numbers ,roman numbers.rounding of numbers.. Addition,subtraction,multiplication etc ( advanced than 4th grade),factors,multiples.. fractions , multiplication,division etc. decimals and their addition,multiplication etc.. Lines. angles their measurement… shapes, their perimeter ,area, measurement of volume temparature,money,measures of time, data collection and pictorial representation. How about you ?? [/QUOTE] Looks about right. He’s also got some algebra, and some stuff I never heard of before, for example stem and leaf plots. I don’t mind telling you that the boy’s homework kicks my ass. We frequently have to use the internet or get my husband involved (he’s good at math, but can’t teach us). I’m glad to hear that he’s going to have to repeat this class next year because he certainly didn’t learn much this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/11 "2008-05-14T16:29:24Z")
[QUOTE=indian] Rythm, what is your opinion on leaffan’s daughter’s syllabus ?? from whatever you can deduce from given info ?? [/QUOTE] Link to [Leaffan’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=467818) thread The Fibonacci sequence in grade 5? I think **CC** ’s Post #35 is an excellent assumptive insight into what’s going on. That is, while it’s not necessarily the case that the fifth grade students are learning all the higher level math that is alluded and used in the thread as a whole, the lessons are chock full of exploratory bits and pieces that show not only the practical side of math, but also the beautiful insights and wiz-bang fun things inherent to number theory (and biology and Earth sciences). Of course it’s up to the individual teacher to do something with the lessons and decide how stringently assignments are graded, but most areas have journal prompts and critical thinking exercises to point kids in the right direction. I have to say that before taking these projects on (a little over a year ago) I took the NCLB Act and the associated fall out somewhat with a curmudgeonly grain of salt. While what I see could be described by an agenda-pushing pundit as teaching to the test, I must say that all lessons are filled with a lot of substance and a lot of opportunity for developing critical thinking skills. Oh, for the non-USA: the No Child Left Behind Act included, among other things, certain grade-level standards. Some criticisms included the notion that rather than teaching math, the teachers would just teach how to solve a particular problem. The above paragraph is my view (admittedly very limited), that these ills are not happening. Note, though, that I’m not any more familiar with NCLB than the average Doper, nor am I involved in education other than teaching SAT prep courses and editing curriculum guides. So, should a fifth grader be able to have generated or followed many of the posts in Leaffan’s thread? Probably not. But I don’t see it anywhere out of the ordinary for them to have been at least exposed to it – again, see CC’s post for a great insight. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/12 "2008-05-14T16:31:47Z")
[QUOTE=indian] what is the content of your child’s maths text ?? ( inspired by Leaffan’s daughter’s homework question , whch I think is too advanced for a 5th grader, or that we in India are far behind in teaching the right topics ). From my son’s 5th grade maths text ( he is 10 years 4 months) Large numbers ,roman numbers.rounding of numbers.. Addition,subtraction,multiplication etc ( advanced than 4th grade),factors,multiples.. fractions , multiplication,division etc. decimals and their addition,multiplication etc.. Lines. angles their measurement… shapes, their perimeter ,area, measurement of volume temparature,money,measures of time, data collection and pictorial representation. How about you ?? [/QUOTE] My daughter is in 5th grade (California) and what you have here is pretty much exactly what she has been doing. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/13 "2008-05-14T17:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=indian] what is the content of your child’s maths text ?? ( inspired by Leaffan’s daughter’s homework question , whch I think is too advanced for a 5th grader, or that we in India are far behind in teaching the right topics ). From my son’s 5th grade maths text ( he is 10 years 4 months) Large numbers ,roman numbers.rounding of numbers.. Addition,subtraction,multiplication etc ( advanced than 4th grade),factors,multiples.. fractions , multiplication,division etc. decimals and their addition,multiplication etc.. Lines. angles their measurement… shapes, their perimeter ,area, measurement of volume temparature,money,measures of time, data collection and pictorial representation. How about you ?? [/QUOTE] That’s what I remember learning in the 5th grade. Also, I don’t see anything in the problem in the other thread that’s not on the list you just gave. It’s all addition, subtraction and multiplication. It’s also “noticing patterns” but of course you won’t find that as a specific chapter heading in your or any math textbook. I’d be suprised if the textbook you’re talking about doesn’t ask its students to think about patterns like this. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-parents-of-5th-graders/449253/14 "2008-05-14T19:19:16Z")
[QUOTE=indian] How about non US dopers ?? [/QUOTE] [National Curriculum online](http://tinyurl.com/58jpno), for the English perspective. In particular, the ‘expected level’ at the end of Year 6 (= 5th Grade) is Level 4. (It can’t be the ‘average’ level, of course, because that wouldn’t make mathematical sense!) > [@](#): > > **Level 4** > Pupils use their understanding of place value to multiply and divide whole numbers by 10 or 100. In solving number problems, pupils use a range of mental methods of computation with the four operations, including mental recall of multiplication facts up to 10 10 and quick derivation of corresponding division facts. They use efficient written methods of addition and subtraction and of short multiplication and division. They add and subtract decimals to two places and order decimals to three places. In solving problems with or without a calculator, pupils check the reasonableness of their results by reference to their knowledge of the context or to the size of the numbers. They recognise approximate proportions of a whole and use simple fractions and percentages to describe these. Pupils recognise and describe number patterns, and relationships including multiple, factor and square. They begin to use simple formulae expressed in words. Pupils use and interpret coordinates in the first quadrant.