# Doper-wives, ever refer to yourself as "Mrs John Doe"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 21, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936 "2010-10-21T21:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/61 "2010-10-23T14:57:03Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > As a woman who is sometimes addressed as “Mrs. HisLastName”, I have to agree with this. Is it such a big deal, really? I can’t imagine going through life looking for ways to get so offended that I would cut off contact with a relative over how they addressed me. Just to clarify - I don’t care if I’m called Mrs. HisLastName, or Mrs/Ms. MyFirstName HisLastName, it’s the **Mrs. HISfirstName HisLastName** construction I find really, really offensive. And in the case of the relatives, it wasn’t just ONE time, it was _multiple_ times after I had made _very clear_ my preferences. It was just a total lack of respect for me as a person, one of them stating she was doing it to “teach me a lesson” and so forth. > [@](#): > > You seem to know a lot of nosey people, **Broomstick**. I remember another thread in which you claimed that strangers or at the very least casual acquaintances were commenting that you would never catch a man if you didn’t groom your eyebrows. What region do you live in where people are always up in each other’s business like that? I am truly curious. That seems very foreign to me, but I live in the cold and impersonal Northeast. Conservative area of the Midwest where a lot of folks still truly, deeply believe the proper role for a woman is as a subservient wife who never talks back, accepts beatings with humility, and keeping oneself properly sexy and attractive is absolutely paramount for a woman to have any hope of happiness in life. Never mind most of these nosy women seem to have been slapped stupid and after a kid or three have gone to fat and rot. This is why I don’t have many women friends - I just _do not_ fit in well with the women around here. Of course, the fact I work with and get along fine with men just makes me more suspect in their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/62 "2010-10-23T15:05:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Just to clarify - I don’t care if I’m called Mrs. HisLastName, or Mrs/Ms. MyFirstName HisLastName, it’s the **Mrs. HISfirstName HisLastName** construction I find really, really offensive. > > And in the case of the relatives, it wasn’t just ONE time, it was _multiple_ times after I had made _very clear_ my preferences. It was just a total lack of respect for me as a person, one of them stating she was doing it to “teach me a lesson” and so forth. > Conservative area of the Midwest where a lot of folks still truly, deeply believe the proper role for a woman is as a subservient wife who never talks back, accepts beatings with humility, and keeping oneself properly sexy and attractive is absolutely paramount for a woman to have any hope of happiness in life. Never mind most of these nosy women seem to have been slapped stupid and after a kid or three have gone to fat and rot. > > This is why I don’t have many women friends - I just _do not_ fit in well with the women around here. Of course, the fact I work with and get along fine with men just makes me more suspect in their eyes. Thank you for answering and for taking my question at face value, as it really was idle curiosity about regional differences (I have never lived anywhere but Boston). I know that where my cousins live in the South, a lot of those same attitudes you describe are alive and well. One cousin traveled here a few years ago for our grandmother’s funeral, leaving her husband alone with their 4 kids. She was freaking out about whether he would be able to handle managing the kids and keeping the household going…for a whopping 2 days. Evidently in their household, the man truly is the king of the castle and doesn’t even know how to sweep a floor. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/63 "2010-10-23T17:19:36Z")
I don’t, but my husband took my name. I correct people, “It is Ms. Mylastname, my husband took my name, not the other way.” I found that without that little explanation they ignore my statement or worse call me Miss. With that little explanation they do one of the following: [ul] [li]Get the big-eyed “Oh no! a feminazi” look and sometimes even flee[/li][li]Just start using the correct name[/li][li]Use the correct name and strike up a conversation about it[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/64 "2010-10-24T02:47:12Z")
> [@MN\_Maenad](#): > > Well, it’s not affecting you, so why don’t you stop trying to tell the little women how to feel, huh? I’m sure you have your pet peeves as well, this is just one for us.. The pet peeve isn’t the problem. The problem is in this post right here. You assume that the person laughing about your pet peeve must be trying to belittle you, not just your belief. Furthermore, if what makes you upset is truly a small thing, then it would help you emotionally to get rid of it. And there are going to be people that are going to give you advice about it. Just like you just gave him advice on what he should say. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/65 "2010-10-25T14:30:57Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I haven’t taken my husband’s last name so it isn’t even accurate. It depends on what you mean by accurate. If “Mrs. John Doe” means nothing more than “the wife of John Doe,” regardless of what that wife’s actual name is, it’s perfectly accurate as a _description_, in the same way that “Johnny Doe’s mother” is accurate as a description but isn’t someone’s name. But all this is approaching irrelevance, because “Mrs. John Doe” is an affectation that is only used by a very limited subculture, like people who wear bowties or bowler hats. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/66 "2010-10-25T15:26:48Z")
Nowadays of course, when John Smith and Mary Jones get married, she might stay “Mary Jones” or adopt “Mary Jones Smith” or “Mary Jones-Smith” and go by her choice of “Ms.” or “Mrs.” I used to know someone who liked to explore old graveyeards, and she said you can see how things have changed by looking at the names on the headstones (where husbands and wives are buried together). Most recently it was “Mary Smith,” or “John and Mary Smith.” Before that it was “Mrs. John Smith,” I think. Would they put “Mrs.” on a headstone? The really old ones say “John Smith and Wife.” :eek: ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/67 "2010-10-25T16:21:29Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I don’t, but my husband took my name. I correct people, “It is Ms. Mylastname, my husband took my name, not the other way.” I found that without that little explanation they ignore my statement or worse call me Miss. With that little explanation they do one of the following: I have a friend who just got married a few months ago. She took her husband’s last name and he took her last name. That seemed a bit complicated to me, but it’s not my name so I don’t get a vote. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/68 "2010-10-25T17:23:56Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > …Before that it was “Mrs. John Smith,” I think. Would they put “Mrs.” on a headstone? > > The really old ones say “John Smith and Wife.” :eek: That doesn’t surprise me. I’ve seen birth announcments in really old newspaper archives that say something like “a son was born to John Smith of (town)”; not even a “Mr & Mrs” or “& wife”. Both of my sets of grandparents’ headstones have the family name at the top; husband’s first & middle names on the left, wife’s first & maiden names on the right. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/69 "2010-10-25T21:44:25Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Both of my sets of grandparents’ headstones have the family name at the top; husband’s first & middle names on the left, wife’s first & maiden names on the right. Yep, 100 years from now, geneaology hobbiests will be cussing all of their progressive grandmothers and great grandmothers over the failure to make tracking their ancestors easier. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/70 "2010-10-26T00:48:39Z")
Well, in my family, on one side, before 1900 we didn’t even have surnames, and by 1945 the Nazis had erased the people, villages, and records for those outside the US. Genealogy is not a hobby in my family. There’s just not anything left to find. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/71 "2010-10-26T02:39:49Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > As I said, hilarious! Life’s too short to get angry over crap like this. The majority of the people that continue these cultural practices aren’t viewing women as chattel. Who are you angry at? The men of 1885? If it weren’t a big deal, I imagine about 50 percent of marriages would have men changing their names… or no one changing them at all. What’s in a name?.. Leave me my name!.. That’s my slave name… a person’s name has always been a matter of great importance. Saying women shouldn’t have a problem with losing their given name, or not having their wishes respected when it comes to their name, or that they are making their choices in a cultural vacuum, is ludicrous. So most of the people continuing these practices don’t see women as chattel – surely that isn’t your only requirement for offense. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/72 "2010-10-26T04:19:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > ISaying women shouldn’t have a problem with losing their given name, or not having their wishes respected when it comes to their name, or that they are making their choices in a cultural vacuum, is ludicrous. So most of the people continuing these practices don’t see women as chattel – surely that isn’t your only requirement for offense. WOW! Talk about attributing a whole bunch of shit that I didn’t even come close to saying. Take a deep breath…count backwards from 20…you’re gonna be okay. Still hilarious. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/73 "2010-10-26T04:55:56Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > WOW! Talk about attributing a whole bunch of shit that I didn’t even come close to saying. > > Take a deep breath…count backwards from 20…you’re gonna be okay. > > Still hilarious. 😛 Well, whatever amuses you in between episodes of Two and a Half Men… Honestly, though, who’s out of breath? I don’t know if you’re a big old ball of joie de vivre on every level or just one of those lovely types who picks and chooses what issues should offend other people and what should be brushed off, on your command, but you don’t need to be hopping mad to acknowledge recent history, the implications and effects of language and people’s real experiences (including Dopers in this thread). ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/74 "2010-10-26T06:01:23Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Yep, 100 years from now, geneaology hobbiests will be cussing all of their progressive grandmothers and great grandmothers over the failure to make tracking their ancestors easier. 😃 Why? What if someone is trying to track down his/her female ancestor(s)? What if my daughter is trying to track down MY ancestors? My grandparents had three daughters and no sons, and all three of the daughters got married and changed their names. My daughter knows my maiden name, and my mother’s maiden name, but I don’t believe that I’ve ever told her what her great-grandmother’s maiden name was. It would make far more sense to have matronymic names, rather than patronymic, and for neither person to change the last name when getting married. Apparently, though, some men feel really, really threatened at the thought of women actually keeping the same name when they get married. I mean, it’s like women are real people! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/75 "2010-10-26T06:05:25Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > WOW! Talk about attributing a whole bunch of shit that I didn’t even come close to saying. \ Well, actually, you did. You implied that women being treated as second-class citizens (and not having your personal name and identity respected is definitely not being treated as an equal) hasn’t happened since 1885, and that women shouldn’t be getting annoyed over this. I don’t know what world you’re living in, but I still get passed over for the guy in line behind me when I’m waiting for service at an automotive counter. Actually, I do know the world you’re living in; you’re living in the world of being born male, and you can’t conceive of anyone else having a different experience of life than you’ve had. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/76 "2010-10-27T11:12:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m the head of household, the chief breadwinner, the bill payer, not him. I want that acknowledged, thank you very much. You realize, I’m assuming, that you are establishing a cultural norm that treats him as an appendage of yourself? You also realize that I may have been whooshed, and not realize it? Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/77 "2010-10-27T11:16:24Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t know what world you’re living in, but I still get passed over for the guy in line behind me when I’m waiting for service at an automotive counter. I don’t think that this was because of the conspiracy. At least, we didn’t go over this in the meetings. The clerk perhaps assumed that you were with the guy. Not unreasonable. And you say you ‘still get passed over’ as if it happens every time. If that is the case, it isn’t the on our agenda. It is probably because you lack presence, and it would be happening to males that lack presence as well. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/78 "2010-10-27T13:02:51Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > You realize, I’m assuming, that you are establishing a cultural norm that treats him as an appendage of yourself? When he was the big breadwinner and chief bill payer HE was head of household and was recognized as such. Just because one of two people is leading the charge today doesn’t mean that that was the one doing so yesterday or will be tomorrow. Old style, the man was automatically head of household simply because he was male, whether he worked his ass off and made big money or laid on the couch all day, drank beer, and beat his wife. In my household who is in charge depends on other criteria than gender, and can and does change to accommodate circumstances. We’re partners, not master and servant. > [@](#): > > You also realize that I may have been whooshed, and not realize it? Always a possibility… ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/79 "2010-10-27T13:07:49Z")
> [@lee](#): > > I don’t, but my husband took my name. Hey, high-five, I think this may be the first time I’ve run into someone else who did this. Mr. Whatsit took my name when we got married, too. (Yes, it’s true, Whatsit was my _maiden_ name.) Anyway, to answer the question asked in the OP, no, I don’t refer to myself that way and in nearly ten years of marriage, no one has ever referred to me that way either. I’m sure this is highly variable by region and generation. I live in Ohio now but we also lived in Seattle for a while, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936/80 "2010-10-27T14:49:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Well, actually, you did. You implied that women being treated as second-class citizens (and not having your personal name and identity respected is definitely not being treated as an equal) hasn’t happened since 1885, and that women shouldn’t be getting annoyed over this. I don’t know what world you’re living in, but I still get passed over for the guy in line behind me when I’m waiting for service at an automotive counter. Actually, I do know the world you’re living in; you’re living in the world of being born male, and you can’t conceive of anyone else having a different experience of life than you’ve had. I’ve told the story before of watching a piece of a “come tell us your story” show on TV (think Jerry Springer without the four-letter words and yelling and with better clothes). That week’s theme was “transexuals”; they had put out a call for all kinds of “people with gender issues” but only got 3 MtF. Both the host and the immense majority of the audience were female; there was one man in the audience, where usually it would be about 50:50 - it was one of those shows were you can call in advance to be in the audience. One of the guests talked about how he used to be a succesful financial manager, but now she couldn’t get a job and men would treat her like a freak; a woman from the audience requested and required the microphone and, after verifying that the guest could remember at least two separate occasions where he had been advanced over female candidates, simply because the other candidates happened to be female, and had seen nothing wrong with it at the time, welcomed her “to the world the rest of us have been living in since birth. And as for the ‘freak’ treatment, lots of guys already treat a ‘born woman’ as one.” The audience applauded; the other two guests (older than this one) were thoughtful; this one was completely stunned. (for those confused by the above, I’m using "he"for the guest to refer to the time when said guest presented as male, and “she” once she started presenting as female) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doper-wives-ever-refer-to-yourself-as-mrs-john-doe/557936.md?page=5)