# Dopers afraid of DC **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759 "2009-11-08T03:17:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/41 "2009-11-08T12:55:56Z")
Nobody ever says, “Stay out of Oxon Hill, Fort Washington, etc”. Guess the racists are just lazy. SE just gets a bad rap because it all gets lumped in with the murderville parts of PG county. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/42 "2009-11-08T12:59:31Z")
Burb baiting. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/43 "2009-11-08T13:07:46Z")
Incidentally, it’s not just the white suburbanites who are afraid of SE. I had a couple white friends from Capitol Hill and you know where they went to school? Wilson. Rich white folk might live in (one particular tiny part of) SE, but they wouldn’t send their kids to public school there. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/44 "2009-11-08T14:17:24Z")
Would you send your kids to Eastern or Balou? I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/45 "2009-11-08T15:28:37Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > You know, I grew up in a Virginia suburb of DC, and I still can’t really respond to this rant from the perspective of a DC-area native. I lived twenty minutes from the city and I still didn’t know my way around the neighborhoods and which ones to avoid, except that ‘there is never anywhere you need to go that will be on the Green Line’, and that probably wasn’t even really true. Except for Gallery Place, U-Street, and Columbia Heights which are entertainment corridors. Saying that SE is dangerous and poor is kind of like saying that Virginia is a rural state. It’s ignorant and ignores the fact that SE is a big place. Aside from Capitol Hill, there is Hillcrest which is a nice stable neighborhood. Also, if you haven’t lived here in ten years, then your knowledge of the city is outdated. Neighborhoods have changed, and parts of the city that used to be decayed and without any commerce have been revitalized. Looking at the DC thread that I suspect prompted this thread was a definition of SE that seemed to include PG County which is just bizarre. That being said Madmonk, I disagree with your assessment of Arlington. I like the area. Not so much for going out at night, but it does have some nice commercial areas which are relatively close to the city, and it was a pleasant place to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/46 "2009-11-08T15:48:18Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think people who are afraid of a place based on inaccurate information and tired stereotypes are, at the least, not all that bright. _Really?_ ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/47 "2009-11-08T16:20:12Z")
**Madmonk’s** location is listed as _Kabul, Afghanistan_. Is that a long commute, or just a Nasty Comment on his neighborhood?. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/48 "2009-11-08T17:01:17Z")
You need to stay the hell out of Kabul. The smart people commute from Baghlan. Safer neighborhoods, and they just opened a new Bob Evans restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/49 "2009-11-08T17:18:18Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t throw it around lightly, I hurl it with great intent. Haa! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/50 "2009-11-08T19:01:34Z")
I now have a job on the north side of Chicago. Everyone there is amazed that I commute (that is, use public transportation). They are also amazed when they find out that I work in a south Chicago hospital as my second job. “You’re safe there?” has been asked more than once. :rolleyes: They also don’t seem to understand that there IS affluence in the southern suburbs (and more value for money, but I digress) and that we are not populated with criminal, ghetto minded folk. Double :rolleyes: . Never underestimate the bubble some people can live in. My BIL (he of the PhD) will not leave his SUV in one of our local parks to come watch his nephew play soccer with the rest of the family. He has to stay with his vehicle, on a sunny Saturday morning, to keep it “safe”. Safe, I guess, from the black soccer commissioner, the black coaches and players and their white and Asian counterparts. My BIL is an ass of the highest order, but since he will not (literally) get out of the car for a major reality check, his world view will not change. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/51 "2009-11-08T19:44:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > some of los cucarachas had “beautiful” blue and yellow spots. :rolleyes: _Las_ cucarachas. Is that an indictment of DC black public schools? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/52 "2009-11-08T19:44:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I see it on this board all the time: Dopers saying things like “stay out of SE,” or “whatever you do, don’t live in SE.” Really? That’s written on this board a lot? It’s a frequent topic, this “SE”? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/53 "2009-11-08T21:14:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Acting like there is no danger to be whitey alone in a black neighborhood, is basically teasing people into doing something stupid. Where I grew up in West End Atlanta, our family was robbed multiple times…once while we were in the house asleep. We got our car stolen, slept in by homeless bums, and numerous bicycles and Big Wheels stolen from the front yard. Of course you know I’m black, right? If you look like you have something of worth, you will be targeted by the up-to-no-gooders. Our blackness did not confer some level of protection that our white neighbors didn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/54 "2009-11-08T21:35:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Never underestimate the bubble some people can live in. My BIL (he of the PhD) will not leave his SUV in one of our local parks to come watch his nephew play soccer with the rest of the family. He has to stay with his vehicle, on a sunny Saturday morning, to keep it “safe”. Safe, I guess, from the black soccer commissioner, the black coaches and players and their white and Asian counterparts. My BIL is an ass of the highest order, but since he will not (literally) get out of the car for a major reality check, his world view will not change. Oh lord. I used to work in the NW suburbs of Chicago and I lived in the city. I commuted on public transit. (CTA bus -\> el -\> PACE) My suburban coworkers were just HORRIFIED that I did this. My explanation that it only took about 10-20 minutes longer than it would if I were driving, and I really didn’t feel like spending the money to buy a car, not to mention I wouldn’t have any place to park it in the city, was lost on them. I once had this conversation with a coworker (who was terribly sweet, but often seemed like she had just escaped from the 19th century): Her: Aren’t you afraid you’ll be attacked on the bus? Me: What?! No! Her: Really? Me: Um, yes. Where…what…why do you think this is even going to be an issue? Her: You don’t know all the people who could be riding the bus! Me: Yeah, but…that doesn’t really happen very often. Her: But it could. Me: I guess. But if it did, other people on the bus would help me out. Her: No, they wouldn’t. Me: What? You think other people are going to sit still and ignore a guy attacking me on a bus? Her: Yes! Me: What? No, they aren’t! Her: You have so much faith in people. Seriously, I felt so sorry for her after this conversation. It must be hard to be so sheltered and so afraid of everyone. Her scenario is totally insane. While I’ve never seen anyone actually get ATTACKED on the CTA, I have seen crazy drunk people made a scene, and the driver always got involved and kicked them off the bus. When my parents came to visit, a couple of my coworkers asked me if I was going to rent a car. I told them no, they’d ride the el with me. They were both horrified that I would subject my parents to such a degrading experience. Shows what they know; my parents really like taking public transit when visiting new places. I grew up in the suburbs of San Francisco, but never heard anyone express so much horror at the idea of visiting an urban area. That job filled me with pretty much permanent scorn for the Chicago suburbs and its residents. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/55 "2009-11-08T21:40:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Where I grew up in West End Atlanta, our family was robbed multiple times…once while we were in the house asleep. We got our car stolen, slept in by homeless bums, and numerous bicycles and Big Wheels stolen from the front yard. > > Of course you know I’m black, right? > > If you look like you have something of worth, you will be targeted by the up-to-no-gooders. Our blackness did not confer some level of protection that our white neighbors didn’t have. If you actually lived in West End Atlanta then I’d expect a broader awareness of urban life. Your ethnicity (white or black) in an urban environment may may not confer you some special protection, but it may sure garner you some special attention. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/56 "2009-11-08T21:43:26Z")
I lived 20 years in the heart of Baltimore, spent plenty of times in tough areas there. Stared down then wrong end of a gun a few times too. Spent plenty of time in DC too, and other cities (hey Oakland!) Here is the difference - in your own city you are more familiar with the rhythms and nuances of street life, and hence safer. This varies across areas of your own cities - we all have our own comfort level, and that corresponds to how “street smart” we judge ourselves relative to how much street smarts we deem necessary for safety in an area. Now if we go to an unfamiliar area, we are less comfortable in judging that, and since we place a high value on personal safety, we become risk averse. I am sure not even the most hardened DC thugs would walk around with impunity in Baltimore or any crime-ridden city, for the same reasons I mentinoed above. In the end, there is a reason why gangs tag territory. While some of us may not be mistaken as rival gang members, that doesn’t make us friends either. It might make us prey with no backup support beyond our wits. For me, that era in Baltimore/DC ended 17 years ago. Maybe SE, or the worst parts of it have gentrified and are no longer crime-ridden. I don’t know, but certainly not enough by reputation to have reached me. Great if is so, but then you guys need to hire a better PR person! ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/57 "2009-11-09T01:59:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Really? That’s written on this board a lot? It’s a frequent topic, this “SE”? I’m not madmonk28 I’ve seen it come up in a few discussions of DC including one currently going on in IMHO. The part of the discussion that is so galling is that it’s just patently false. Much of SE isn’t particularly crime ridden Anyone who has spent any amount of time in Capitol Hill, the Eastern Market, or Barrows Row knows that all of SE isn’t a crime ridden hellhole. Areas such as the Navy Yard have been redeveloped and are unrecognizable from 5 years ago. [QUOTE=madmonk28] They seem to think that somehow wandering across N. Capitol street is going to get them killed. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about that. Those Maryland drivers are mean and they speed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/58 "2009-11-09T03:11:47Z")
All I can say is that I agree with the OP 100%, and Eastern Market was the best place I’ve ever lived in the US. And that was 12 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/59 "2009-11-09T03:19:06Z")
Haven’t had a chance to read all the responses, but it’s pretty clear I touched a nerve. Yes, **RickJay** , it is a common theme in any thread about DC. Here are a couple of my favorites: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11752769&postcount=44](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11752769&postcount=44) > [@](#): > > Chessic Sense > Member Join Date: Apr 2007 > Location: Pittsburgh, PA > Posts: 1,466 > > Don’t live in SE. > Don’t live in SE. > Don’t live in SE. > > It’s worth sayng three times. I’ve lived in Loudon County and now Arlington. The latter is definitely preferred. Loudon is about 50 minutes commute, each way, and that’s only to the beltway. If you have to go to the White House, then you definitely want to live closer in. Also, I recommend moving on top of a metro station. It really makes life simpler. It’s like having every club and bar in DC on your street. > > One-time must-sees include the Green Tree restaurant in Leesberg. It’s worth the drive and it’s pretty romantic out there. The whole town is civil-war era buildings and its gorgeous. Take a Saturday and spend the whole day seeing the town. > > Check out Mt. Vernon too. No one ever thinks to go there because it’s not on the Mall like all the other tourist places. Take at least 4 or 5 hours though, as there’s a lot more to see than just a house. > > A favorite restaurant of mine is Fogo de Chao, on Pennsylvania Ave. It’s about $60 a person but it’s totally worth it if you eat meat. > > Might I recommend becoming a CouchSurfer? We’re very active in this city and there’s always something to do with them/us. If you and your girlfriend are new to the area, I suggest looking us up. PM me if you want to know more about it. and [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10940771&postcount=25](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10940771&postcount=25) > [@](#): > > 03-16-2009, 10:01 AM > An Arky > Charter Member Join Date: Mar 2002 > Location: Arlington, VA USA > Posts: 6,723 > > No need to dance around the issue; the areas nyctea scandiaca circled are mostly black neighborhoods, with the exception of parts of Capitol Hill. > > I lived on the “black” side of Capitol Hill for a year and a half. People were at best indifferent to me (white guy) and often openly hostile. I tried, I mean I really tried to make the best of it, but the bottom line is that it just wasn’t worth it, though YMMV wildly. > > DC is the most segregated city I’ve ever seen, with the possible exception of Boston. Many blacks in DC have a nasty attitude towards whites, some of it historically deservedly so. I just don’t like being looked upon as the face of oppression every.fucking.day, personally, and I’m not one of those squeamish suburbanites, either. > > If you’re into playing urban pioneer, it’s fine, I guess. ::shrugs:: ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759/60 "2009-11-09T04:19:38Z")
Fort Washington homeboy here. Part of what we’re doing here is reminiscing. DC is rapidly losing its black majority. This will probably be the last generation where DC remains a “black” town. People say the same thing - don’t go there, it’s like Beirut - about PG County, and they don’t make a distinction between the upscale areas and the dangerous parts near the DC border. So some it’s simple racism, and some of it’s a genuine fear of violence. Dave Chappelle talked about this in his standup routines. Working as a pizza delivery guy in DC, constantly being robbed by black folks. Talk to the black cab drivers, they’ll tell you the same thing. The reason so much of the black upper middle class has fled is b/c they don’t want to be robbed or send their kids to substandard schools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-afraid-of-dc/516759.md?page=4)