# Dopers are banned from using "whomever" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659 "2010-01-27T16:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/1 "2010-01-27T16:57:54Z")
…until you learn to use it correctly: > [@24: Season 8: Episode 5 (8:00pm - 9:00pm)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/24-season-8-episode-5-8-00pm-9-00pm/526451/17): > > That may be because I keep seeing Starbuck and not whomever she is supposed to be. Predicate nominative. > [@A child should have the true name of his parents on his birth record](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-child-should-have-the-true-name-of-his-parents-on-his-birth-record/526297/37): > > Do you propose to DNA test every child born, comparing the sample just to whomever Mom claims is Dad Predicate Nominative. > [@Modern Warfare 2](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-warfare-2/515835/62): > > Why isn’t it profitable for Infinty Ward or whomever to make a more sandboxed version of a COD game with a gigantic singleplayer mode? Subject of “to make”. > [@Christmas Gift Exchange 2009](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/christmas-gift-exchange-2009/517696/76): > > well whomever had me…just for info that it hasn’t arrived yet (in case you mailed it some time ago). I won’t be back to work till next Wed so if it’s there I’ll leave it as a ‘welcome into 2010’ gift Subject of “had”. > [@Can someone explain why this is offensive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-someone-explain-why-this-is-offensive/526245/3): > > Well that would be reasonable if that’s the reason. You’d hope that the coach (or whomever) would have looked into that before they agreed to the dance though. Subject of “would have looked”. And these were just the first 5 of 6 threads I clicked through! [This](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/who)usage note says it best: > [@](#): > > Whom may sound stuffy even when correctly used, and when used where who would be correct, as in “Whom shall I say is calling?” whom may betray grammatical ignorance. Besides, nobody actually uses “whom” or “whomever” anymore\*. They’re dying a slow, painful (for me) death. Anyone that actually uses these words is doing so on purpose. So if you’re going to fight against the tide of change and try to preserve these silly relics, at least do so correctly. Otherwise, embrace the dark side and come on over to exclusively using “who(ever)”. Come on guys, we’re at an 83% failure rate. We’re Dopers! We’re better than that! \*_Brought to you by “My Subjectivity Is Better Than Your Subjectivity” Productions, trademark by Chessic Sense Ltd._ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/2 "2010-01-27T16:58:50Z")
Whatever! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/3 "2010-01-27T17:04:43Z")
And this matters to whom? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/4 "2010-01-27T17:06:47Z")
I think it’s done specifically to annoy me. People go “I wonder if **CS** will be reading this?” Then they toss it in, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/5 "2010-01-27T17:09:41Z")
You are not the boss of me whomever you are.:p:p:p ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/6 "2010-01-27T17:10:06Z")
You can’t tell me what to do! Whomever do you think you are? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/7 "2010-01-27T17:15:41Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Whatever! Damn you for beating me to this. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/8 "2010-01-27T17:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Why isn’t it profitable \*\*for \*\*[…] \*\*whomever \*\*to make Sorry, I don’t see how this is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/9 "2010-01-27T17:22:08Z")
Isn’t it basically just used with, ‘to’, ‘with’, and ‘from’, and you’ll usually be right if you limit it to that? Not so hard (if I’m right!) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/10 "2010-01-27T17:23:42Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Sorry, I don’t see how this is wrong. I agree. Whenever I’m unsure about the right case for an obscure pronoun like “whomever”, I check with a common pronoun: 1a. Why isn’t it profitable for I to make … 1b. Why isn’t it profitable for me to make … 2a. Why isn’t it profitable for he to make … 2b. Why isn’t it profitable for him to make … “Me” and “him” look right in that context, so “whomever” must be the correct pedantic choice. Not that I’d actually advocate its use, but it’s an error to say that it’s incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/11 "2010-01-27T17:32:49Z")
Fucking pedants. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/12 "2010-01-27T17:33:56Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > …until you learn to use it correctly: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by MitzeKatze > > Do you propose to DNA test every child born, comparing the sample just to whomever Mom claims is Dad Are you saying this usage is incorrect? I will challenge you on that as “whom” is the proper usage as the object of preposition. “To whom” is correct, thus “to whomever” is also correct. 😛 “Whom is calling” is all kinds of wrong, but “To whom do you wish to speak?” is perfect English. > [@](#): > > Besides, nobody actually uses “whom” or “whomever” anymore\*. They’re dying a slow, painful (for me) death. Anyone that actually uses these words is doing so on purpose. Bullshit. Many of us English speakers do so without even thinking about it- and use them correctly to boot. I was taught to speak properly, my children were taught to speak properly and it is no affectation when we use “whom” because “who” is incorrect. I bet you also answer the question of, “May I speak to Calssic Sense?” with the response of “This is him” (or “this is her”) don’t you? When any English speaker should know that “This is he” or “This is she” is what should roll off your tongue without even thinking. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/13 "2010-01-27T17:35:52Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > And this matters to whom? Whomeveryone. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/14 "2010-01-27T17:38:02Z")
Irregardless of how you feel about the word, their ain’t nothing you can do to affect weather or knot people use proper grammar. Its they’re choice. (I bet this is going to make a couple heads explode). ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/15 "2010-01-27T17:40:16Z")
For once, **ivn** will be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/16 "2010-01-27T17:42:11Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > … their ain’t nothing you can do to affect weather … Very true: I try hard to make the sun shine, but at this time of year it snows instead. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/17 "2010-01-27T17:42:42Z")
"Then the Whoms down in Whomville will all cry BooHoo!” because they do not want to change their names especially little Cindy-Lou Whom. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/18 "2010-01-27T17:49:27Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I agree. Whenever I’m unsure about the right case for an obscure pronoun like “whomever”, I check with a common pronoun: > > 1a. Why isn’t it profitable for I to make … > 1b. Why isn’t it profitable for me to make … > > 2a. Why isn’t it profitable for he to make … > 2b. Why isn’t it profitable for him to make … > > “Me” and “him” look right in that context, so “whomever” must be the correct pedantic choice. Not that I’d actually advocate its use, but it’s an error to say that it’s incorrect. Damn. Gaudered. > [@MitzeKatze](#): > > Are you saying this usage is incorrect? I will challenge you on that as “whom” is the proper usage as the object of preposition. “To whom” is correct, thus “to whomever” is also correct. 😛 > > I bet you also answer the question of, “May I speak to Calssic Sense?” with the response of “This is him” (or “this is her”) don’t you? When any English speaker should know that “This is he” or “This is she” is what should roll off your tongue without even thinking. I was going to answer your first part by stating the second part. If you arrange the second half of your sentence I quoted, you get “Mom said that Dad is \_\_\_\_”. Now using my subjectivity, which is better than yours (as stated in the OP), it should be nominative case. “Mom said that Dad is he.” Unless you’re answering a telephone. Then you can use an object because, again, my subjectivity trumps yours. I declare this to be so. In your sentence, the entire clause “whoever Mom says is Dad” is an object of “to”. I agree. But the pronoun goes with “is”, not “to”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/19 "2010-01-27T17:49:50Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > You can’t tell me what to do! Whomever do you think you are? You beat me to it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/20 "2010-01-27T17:55:14Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > "Then the Whoms down in Whomville will all cry BooHoo!” Shouldn’t that be “Boo Hoom”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=2)