# Dopers are banned from using "whomever" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659 "2010-01-27T16:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/21 "2010-01-27T18:03:38Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > For once, **ivn** will be correct. Watch – this time he’ll actually agree with the OP. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/22 "2010-01-27T18:05:16Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Anyone that actually uses these words is doing so on purpose. I’d say roughly 99% of the words I use, I use on purpose. So excuse the fuck out of me. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/23 "2010-01-27T18:08:31Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I was going to answer your first part by stating the second part. If you arrange the second half of your sentence I quoted, you get “Mom said that Dad is \_\_\_\_”. Now using my subjectivity, which is better than yours (as stated in the OP), it should be nominative case. I do bow to you superior subjectivity, but I believe you misread the sentence.😉 It was compared TO \ thus the DNA in question would be “…compared to him” not “compared to he”, “Mom said the Dad is he” is absolutely correct, but Mom would have to compare the dad (or the DNA as the case may be) to him. > [@](#): > > "In your sentence, the entire clause “whoever Mom says is Dad” is an object of “to”. I agree. But the pronoun goes with “is”, not “to”. I believe your superior subjectivity has failed in this instance. The pronoun is the object of the preposition. “Compared to him”, not “compared to he”. To whom was it compared? It was compared to whomever… It’s okay though, I will accept your apology graciously. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/24 "2010-01-27T18:09:03Z")
First, WGAS. Second, this thread will not meet IVN’s approval. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/25 "2010-01-27T18:11:09Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > And this matters to whom? I think Whom’s on first. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/26 "2010-01-27T18:11:30Z")
For extra shits and giggles, I sometimes substitute “whomsoever” for “whoever.” Of course, I also pronounce “whom” like it’s a cartoon sound effect. WHOM!!! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/27 "2010-01-27T18:16:43Z")
Can you do “yourself” and “myself” next? When did “you” and “me/my” become taboo words? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/28 "2010-01-27T18:22:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Can you do “yourself” and “myself” next? Only if you’ll do yourself first. And let me watch. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/29 "2010-01-27T18:32:56Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Besides, nobody actually uses “whom” or “whomever” anymore\*. Well, sure. Nobody likes being yelled at. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/30 "2010-01-27T18:37:05Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Only if you’ll do yourself first. And let me watch. Hey, I used quotes to indicate nobody was supposed to do themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/31 "2010-01-27T18:38:23Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Hey, I used quotes to indicate nobody was supposed to do themselves. Right, nobody was “supposed to.” Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/32 "2010-01-27T18:45:59Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > I bet you also answer the question of, “May I speak to Calssic Sense?” with the response of “This is him” (or “this is her”) don’t you? When any English speaker should know that “This is he” or “This is she” is what should roll off your tongue without even thinking. Actually, I answer that question with “I am Jamaika a jamaikaiaké,” because it’s just ever so jarring. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/33 "2010-01-27T18:47:29Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Whatever! Whamever. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/34 "2010-01-27T18:48:47Z")
The first and second ones also seem correct to me: “Whom do you keep seeing?” “To whom are you comparing the sample?” Perhaps the third as well: “For whom is it profitable…?” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/35 "2010-01-27T20:47:08Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Fucking pedants. Don’t encourage them! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/36 "2010-01-27T21:25:30Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > Are you saying this usage is incorrect? I will challenge you on that as “whom” is the proper usage as the object of preposition. “To whom” is correct, thus “to whomever” is also correct. 😛 > > “Whom is calling” is all kinds of wrong, but “To whom do you wish to speak?” is perfect English. > > Bullshit. Many of us English speakers do so without even thinking about it- and use them correctly to boot. I was taught to speak properly, my children were taught to speak properly and it is no affectation when we use “whom” because “who” is incorrect. > > I bet you also answer the question of, “May I speak to Calssic Sense?” with the response of “This is him” (or “this is her”) don’t you? When any English speaker should know that “This is he” or “This is she” is what should roll off your tongue without even thinking. I was going to point out that you need to be careful because some people will think you are a pretentious asshole when you speak that way, but I see you have no problem with coming across in that manner. It’s one thing to have a predilection to speak in (what you were taught was) proper English, but it’s pretentious as hell to assert that there is something wrong with people that do not. There is no one authority that dictates how one should be taught to speak English. If anything, there is the opposite: the tendency with modern grammarians is to accept alternate uses if used by a significant portion of the population. That said, my mom, despite getting Ds in English all her life, instinctively knows to say “This is she” when she answers the phone. But she learned it as a way to sound more intelligent, so that the caller doesn’t think he’s dealing with some stupid hick. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/37 "2010-01-27T21:41:57Z")
Didn’t Dr Seuss do a story about this? Horton hears a whom? ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/38 "2010-01-27T21:42:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I was going to point out that you need to be careful because some people will think you are a pretentious asshole when you speak that way, but I see you have no problem with coming across in that manner. > > It’s one thing to have a predilection to speak in (what you were taught was) proper English, but it’s pretentious as hell to assert that there is something wrong with people that do not. There is no one authority that dictates how one should be taught to speak English. If anything, there is the opposite: the tendency with modern grammarians is to accept alternate uses if used by a significant portion of the population. :rolleyes: This was the funniest thing I have read in this thread, if you are being serious. The whole “this is he” thing tacked on the end of my post was just taking a dig at the OP and not meant in anyway to assert that there was something wrong with those who do not speak English in the same manner which I do. Pretension is in the eye (ear?) of the beholder I am afraid, so anyone who would like to label me as such based on the use of pronouns is free to do so, but it only proves ignorance on their part, not mine. If it helps, I shall discontinue use of smilies and written cues and just start sentences with, “This is meant as a joke, let’s don’t take it too seriously, okay?” So just go back to the post you’d like to criticize me over, mentally tack that to the beginning of the objectionable phrase- whichever it may be- and see if that helps the comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/39 "2010-01-27T21:50:10Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Fucking pedants. Yeah. Those fucking pedants should get a damn room, already! ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/40 "2010-01-27T22:09:50Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I think it’s done specifically to annoy me. People go “I wonder if **CS** will be reading this?” Then they toss it in, just in case. Whomever uses “go” instead of “say” MUST be tortured. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=3)