# Dopers are banned from using "whomever" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659 "2010-01-27T16:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/41 "2010-01-27T22:11:31Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Whomever uses “go” instead of “say” MUST be tortured. “To go” still beats “to be like,” or “to be all like.” ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/42 "2010-01-27T22:15:19Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > “To go” still beats “to be like,” or “to be all like.” Gotta give you that one. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/43 "2010-01-27T22:16:22Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > Are you saying this usage is incorrect? I will challenge you on that as “whom” is the proper usage as the object of preposition. “To whom” is correct, thus “to whomever” is also correct. That rule doesn’t work quite so neatly, though. For example, it’s proper to say “Give the sandwich to whoever wants it.” (It’s not _whomever_ in that case.) I believe it would also be “whoever” in your sentence. Oh, and [cite](http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoever.asp). As for “It is she” and “it is her,” the subjective case is correct, but in many cases sounds weird and stilted, as in “It’s I” vs “It’s me” and “Look! It’s him!” vs “Look! It’s he!” I’d reckon that while prescriptivist grammar may not have caught up with it, common usage probably heavily favors the objective construction. And using the objective case as a subject complement isn’t unique to English, either. Look at French with it’s “C’est moi” (“It’s me”) construction. There’s no real reason the subjective form has to be “correct.” ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/44 "2010-01-27T22:27:28Z")
I’m going to use whomsoever instead. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/45 "2010-01-27T22:29:49Z")
Side tangent that happens all the time at work: **Angel** : “And with whom am I speaking?” **Caller** : “Huh?” **Angel** : ::more clearly enunciated, slightly slower, lower pitched:: “With whom am I speaking?” **Caller** : “Huh?” **Angel** : “. . .who am I talking to?” **Caller** : “Oooohhhh…” Drives me nuts every time, because asking it that way isn’t something I’m doing consciously; it’s just what I was taught to do when I was a kid. Anyway. Right there with you, **CS**. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/46 "2010-01-27T22:30:53Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > “To go” still beats “to be like,” or “to be all like.” Cartoon in Playboy from the '80s: two women sitting in a cafe, captioned “So he’s all ‘You wanna get married?’ and I’m like ‘Yeah.’” ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/47 "2010-01-27T22:39:50Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I’m going to use whomsoever instead. I think that’s a brilliant solution. And whomsoever disagrees shall just have to lump it. 😃 > [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > Drives me nuts every time, **because asking it that way isn’t something I’m doing consciously; it’s just what I was taught to do when I was a kid.** The bolded statement.\* I do take issue with the suggestion that anyone who uses “whom” or “whomever” is doing so “on purpose” or in order to “sound” smart or more educated. It is just the way we were taught to speak (both at home and in English classes) and it becomes so ingrained that we (I, at least) give it little thought. _Okay here I was trying to avoid saying, “This!”. Any grammar neurotics_\* want to give me a suggestion on what is a suitable replacement when I want to say, “This” or “me too”? \*\*This is meant as a joke, let’s not take it too seriously, okay? 😉 ETA: > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Cartoon in Playboy from the '80s: two women sitting in a cafe, captioned “So he’s all ‘You wanna get married?’ and I’m like ‘Yeah.’” This reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter over why she broke up with her boyfriend. She said, "He was all up my butt all the time, and so I was all like ‘you gotta go, dude’ and he was all ‘but I love you’ and I went ‘if you loved me you wouldn’t be up my butt so much’. " And then Mom was all like, “what??” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/48 "2010-01-27T22:52:51Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > \ > This reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter over why she broke up with her boyfriend. She said, "He was all up my butt all the time, and so I was all like ‘you gotta go, dude’ and he was all ‘but I love you’ and I went ‘if you loved me you wouldn’t be up my butt so much’. " > > And then Mom was all like, “what??” 😉 Yourself should just be glad themselves were using a form of sex that isn’t likely to end up in pregnancy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/49 "2010-01-27T22:52:51Z")
I’m glad “whatever” is still allowed. Moved from The BBQ Pit to Mundane Pointless Stuff I Must Share. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/50 "2010-01-27T23:15:43Z")
Did I ever mention that Mrs M’s uncle played bass for The Whom? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/51 "2010-01-27T23:26:29Z")
Yeah, but “Whoooooooom are you? Whom whom whom? I really want to know.” ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/52 "2010-01-27T23:29:18Z")
Whatever. Mkay. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/53 "2010-01-27T23:55:13Z")
Whom, me? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/54 "2010-01-28T00:00:35Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Did I ever mention that Mrs M’s uncle played bass for The Whom? John Entwimsle? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/55 "2010-01-28T00:10:10Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Did I ever mention that Mrs M’s uncle played bass for The Whom? Oh yeah! My favorite album of theirs is _Thomas_. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/56 "2010-01-28T00:21:22Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Whomever uses “go” instead of “say” MUST be tortured. Whyever are we bothering about this? I’m just glad I can decode my friends’ text messages. (I have a proper keyboard; they don’t.) ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/57 "2010-01-28T01:19:09Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I agree. Whenever I’m unsure about the right case for an obscure pronoun like “whomever”, I check with a common pronoun: > > 1a. Why isn’t it profitable for I to make … > 1b. Why isn’t it profitable for me to make … > > 2a. Why isn’t it profitable for he to make … > 2b. Why isn’t it profitable for him to make … > > “Me” and “him” look right in that context, so “whomever” must be the correct pedantic choice. Not that I’d actually advocate its use, but it’s an error to say that it’s incorrect. The correct phraseology is: 1. Who gots mah money! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/58 "2010-01-28T01:20:09Z")
For Whomever the Bell Tolls. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/59 "2010-01-28T05:11:26Z")
Just whom do you think you are, anyways? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/60 "2010-01-28T17:14:50Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Yeah. Those fucking pedants should get a damn room, already! Make sure they don’t have any calculators. They’re liable to start multiplying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=4)