# Dopers are banned from using "whomever" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659 "2010-01-27T16:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/61 "2010-01-28T17:50:29Z")
So is it okay to say _whom_, ever? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/62 "2010-01-28T18:28:15Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > Side tangent that happens all the time at work: > > **Angel** : “And with whom am I speaking?” > **Caller** : “Huh?” > **Angel** : ::more clearly enunciated, slightly slower, lower pitched:: “With whom am I speaking?” > **Caller** : “Huh?” > **Angel** : “. . .who am I talking to?” > **Caller** : “Oooohhhh…” If I’m not mistaken, in the current parlance the correct form is “_WHO DIS_?!” ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/63 "2010-01-28T18:30:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So is it okay to say _whom_, ever? I’ll allow it. But you watch yourself, **RNATB**. ---
**Author:** ![Heckity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Heckity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heckity)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/64 "2010-01-28T18:45:33Z")
Sorry **Big T** but - > [@](#): > > people that do not. shouldn’t that be people **who** do not? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/65 "2010-01-28T22:41:56Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > John Entwimsle? Yeah, he. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/66 "2010-01-28T23:01:58Z")
[Hypercorrection.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/67 "2010-01-28T23:10:35Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > [Hypercorrection.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection) For reasons that are completely inexplicable to me, “hyperforeignism” just became my new favorite word. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/68 "2010-01-29T03:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Did I ever mention that Mrs M’s uncle played bass for The Whom? I think I read that in Whom’s Whom. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/69 "2010-01-29T04:29:49Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Predicate nominative. > Predicate Nominative. > Subject of “to make”. > Subject of “had” > Subject of “would have looked”. You didn’t do so hot, yourself: a) Predicate nominative. **Correct** b) Predicate Nominative. **Incorrect; subject of noun clause “whoever is Dad.”** c) Subject of “to make”. **Correct; however, subjects of infinitive phrases properly take objective case.** d) Subject of “had” **Correct** e) Subject of “would have looked”. **Correct** 3/5 on the nitpickery. Not bad, but nother to brag about. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/70 "2010-01-29T04:32:16Z")
Let’s get a fucking handle on “its” and “it’s” before we go this far. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/71 "2010-01-29T04:40:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Let’s get a fucking handle on “its” and “it’s” before we go this far. But that one is so easy! There is really nothing to argue about: it is= it’s, it (owns)= its. Always. There’s no gray area and I’d venture a guess that with a group as educated, bright and talented as the people here, misuse is usually a matter of typos…no drama at all. ☹ Now if you wanna discuss who’s versus whose (which is exactly the same or is it backwards from it’s and its) we might get a good argument going. ETA: Or better yet let’s talk about 's instead and get a handle on the fact that it is not used to make a plural before we worry about who and whom. 😉 Really the nit-picks could go on all day, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/72 "2010-01-29T07:22:44Z")
I never would of thought we had such Grammar … oh what is it… Secret Police. You know, that society that has uniformed guards that roam the streets and arrest people in the middle of the night. Goddamn it it’s right on the tip of my tongue! Yes I put that in there on purpose just to annoy you. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/73 "2010-01-29T07:35:34Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > I never would of thought we had such Grammar … oh what is it.. Secret Police. You know, that society that has uniformed guards that roam the streets and arrest people in the middle of the night. Goddamn it it’s right on the tip of my tongue! > … (words in white removed to annoy you) 😉 Obviously the word you are looking for is “Grammarian”. 😉 Maybe even Neo-Grammarian. 😃 I am pretty sure we aren’t supposed to use the word out of fear of Websterizing a thread (similar to invoking Godwin’s Law) but feel free to use the euphemisms: grammatist, philologist, or rhetorician. Just don’t use the secret Grammarian salute or display the flag in public. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/74 "2010-01-29T08:05:47Z")
Whomever whomever whatever Whyever whomever WHATEVER whomever. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/75 "2010-01-29T16:29:57Z")
The hyphenated ones are the easiest to figure out - if you can un-hyphenate the words and it still makes sense, then hyphenate it. What’s bugging me lately (“what is” - yup, that’s right) is that the world of sports has lost the possessive apostrophe. It’s just gone - dropped with no fanfare. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/76 "2010-01-29T17:16:51Z")
I wish I had some witty retort or obscure grammar rule, but I incorrectly used “whomever” and have been duly chastised. I accept my banning and will not use the word again until I re-learn what the fuck a predicate nominative is. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/77 "2010-01-29T18:37:51Z")
My Grandfather (not the wise one, the other one) solved this problem by using “who-some-ever”. Drove me completely apeshit. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/78 "2010-01-29T19:07:44Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > My Grandfather (not the wise one, the other one) solved this problem by using “who-some-ever”. > > Drove me completely apeshit. But did he use it with the hyphens? That would annoy me too. 😉 For some of us though, whomsoever is rapidly becoming the pronoun of choice regardless of sentence structure. Just this morning I asked my kids, “Whomsoever left this milk out?” to which they all quickly responded, “It wasn’t me. I don’t know whomsoever was even drinking milk this morning.” 😃 Standard disclaimer: This was meant as a joke, let’s not take it too seriously, okay? ETA: And upon re-reading I just now caught the “some” rather than “so”. So never mind, my joke is not nearly as clever as I thought. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/79 "2010-01-29T20:53:39Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > But that one is so easy! There is really nothing to argue about: it is= it’s, it (owns)= its. Always. There’s no gray area and I’d venture a guess that with a group as educated, bright and talented as the people here, misuse is usually a matter of typos…no drama at all. ☹ No, it’s not. In fact, a lot of regular posters here don’t have a damned clue which is which. Hang around and keep an eye out for it and you’ll see what I mean. I’m all for properly using “Whomever” but I can give that one a pass when even the SDMB’s supposedly brainy denizens regulary fuck up: It’s and Its Lose and Loose Role and Roll “Myself” Possessives having apostrophes and plurals not ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659/80 "2010-01-29T21:13:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > … > I’m all for properly using “Whomever” but I can give that one a pass when even the SDMB’s supposedly brainy denizens regulary fuck up: > > It’s and Its > Lose and Loose > Role and Roll > “Myself” > Possessives having apostrophes and plurals not Now these I could probably get on board with. But can I add to it the incorrect use of “I”. I know that we, as children in grammar school, were taught it is impolite and incorrect to put “I” first, so, “She and I went to the fair.” is preferable to “I and she…” and that “me” is never correct as a subject, so never would, “Me and her go to the fair” nor would “She and me” do anything. But these rules seem to have taken on new life and many people are afraid of using “me” at all. So I regularly read sentences such as, “Our mother went to the fair with Sally and I.” or, “This is a picture of my husband and I” or the worst case yet (thankfully not from this message board) “My roommate and I’s apartment…” But on second thought maybe my little I/me rant should stay between you and I. (Okay, even typing that on purpose made me cringe a bit. ;)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-banned-from-using-whomever/526659.md?page=5)