# Dopers, are we all one? Are we the universe experiencing itself subjectively? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894 "2012-11-13T16:02:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/1 "2012-11-13T16:02:38Z")
Are we all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Are we the universe’s consciousness? The law of attraction, I’ve spent literally days worth of hours reading into this. It claims somewhat that projecting positive energy will attract positive energy and in some cases articles literally suggest, that by thinking positively about something you want to happen in your life, you can actually make it come true by ‘law of attraction’ What do you all think about this? Terrence Mckenna’s timewave zero novelty theory, anyone heard about this? > **[Timewave Zero 2012 – Terence McKenna](https://timewave.wordpress.com/2007/12/26/terrence-mckenna-timewave-zero-2012/)** > > We are on the brink of possibilities that will make us literally unrecognizable to ourselves and those possibilities will be realized, not in the next thousand years but in the next 20 years becaus… [http://www.fractal-timewave.com/](http://www.fractal-timewave.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/2 "2012-11-13T16:35:18Z")
It’s garbage, or sufficiently ambiguous made up crap as to be indistinguishable from garbage. I read the wikipedia article on McKenna and basically he’s, if not nuts, using terminology from physics he has no understanding of. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/3 "2012-11-13T23:08:29Z")
How do we project positive energy? Is there a little generator inside us? A positive _attitude_ might get more favourable reactions from other people, but that’s a purely psychological thing. Nothing to do with “attracting positive energy” as if there’s some warm, fuzzy energy floating around out there for the picking. If there was, we’d have been grabbing as much as our greedy hands could hold long ago. There’d be fights over it. Wars would be fought over it. I suspect, though, that there _is_ a certain law of attraction at work between its proponents and your money.😉 ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/4 "2012-11-14T00:00:36Z")
I know Terrence McKenna primarily as a Psilocybe mushroom enthusiast and psychonaut i.e. someone who took psychedelic drugs perhaps a little too seriously. He would also speak at raves in the early/mid 90’s (I have some friends that have seen him give lectures at all-night raves). I wouldn’t put too much stock in his beliefs of how the universe works. These types of ideas remind me of ancient cosmologies, like the earth being supported on the back of a giant turtle, etc. They’re neat ideas I guess, and probably fun to think about but just because you can think something doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/5 "2012-11-14T00:34:29Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > How do we project positive energy? Is there a little generator inside us? Aha! That explains those _Six Million Dollar Man_ noises I’ve been making lately. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/6 "2012-11-14T00:45:11Z")
**Dopers, are we all one? Are we the universe experiencing itself subjectively?** I know I am, but what are you? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/7 "2012-11-14T02:47:05Z")
ssshhhhh it’s a SecretTM ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/8 "2012-11-14T02:58:29Z")
We are stardust. No, really, we are. ---
**Author:** ![Fatalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Fatalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatalis)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/9 "2012-11-14T03:03:27Z")
I am the totality of the Universe. Everyone is experiencing me subjectively. And you’re all wrong. **ESPECIALLY** Terrence McKenna. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/10 "2012-11-14T03:31:26Z")
“Today, a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration – that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There’s no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here’s Tom with the weather.” [QUOTE=Esox Lucius] Nothing to do with “attracting positive energy” as if there’s some warm, fuzzy energy floating around out there for the picking. If there was, we’d have been grabbing as much as our greedy hands could hold long ago. There’d be fights over it. Wars would be fought over it. [/QUOTE] I dunno, man. I haven’t seen a war fought over solar power yet. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/11 "2012-11-14T04:39:47Z")
> [@Luk3112](#): > > Are we all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Are we the universe’s consciousness? No, and no. > [@](#): > > What do you all think about this? Not much. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/12 "2012-11-14T05:03:05Z")
It isn’t so objectionable that it is written as if it were poetry. What’s objectionable is that it is such **bad** poetry. Yes, the human mind is “matter made conscious.” The same is true for the chipmunk mind. ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/13 "2012-11-14T08:54:35Z")
Saying ‘no its crap’ doesn’t convince me. I am not on either sides but I still remain unconvinced by both arguments. The idea that we are the universe’s consciousness is that we are made out of the universe, so therefore us being conscious is the universe being aware. Sounds a bit whacky now I re read what I just put but I’m not expressing my views, just my interest in others views. The timewave zero theory is really what I want to hear about, anyone know about it? I’m struggling to understand it but I think I get the point. Can anybody explain? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/14 "2012-11-14T08:58:19Z")
> [@Luk3112](#): > > Saying ‘no its crap’ doesn’t convince me. I am not on either sides but I still remain unconvinced by both arguments. > > The idea that we are the universe’s consciousness is that we are made out of the universe, so therefore us being conscious is the universe being aware. Sounds a bit whacky now I re read what I just put but I’m not expressing my views, just my interest in others views. > > The timewave zero theory is really what I want to hear about, anyone know about it? I’m struggling to understand it but I think I get the point. Can anybody explain? How do you expect someone to explain nonsense? Here, try this… Explain to me the theory of **jf invt8baep rsyormwng ;ruoam[bn** ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/15 "2012-11-14T10:16:01Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > How do you expect someone to explain nonsense? > > Here, try this… > Explain to me the theory of **jf invt8baep rsyormwng ;ruoam[bn** Asdas, asdokov s wppwbg 123 ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/16 "2012-11-14T10:17:20Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > How do you expect someone to explain nonsense? > > Here, try this… > Explain to me the theory of **jf invt8baep rsyormwng ;ruoam[bn** fool ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/17 "2012-11-14T10:24:08Z")
> [@Luk3112](#): > > fool Personal attacks are not acceptable in the debates forum. We have a forum for this type of post - the [pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/18 "2012-11-14T11:16:19Z")
As a child, I started out with a very positive attitude. Then life kicked me in the crotch. Where did I go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Luk3112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@Luk3112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luk3112)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/19 "2012-11-14T13:03:15Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Personal attacks are not acceptable in the debates forum. > > We have a forum for this type of post - the [pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5) its the dope police! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894/20 "2012-11-14T13:43:57Z")
> [@Luk3112](#): > > Saying ‘no its crap’ doesn’t convince me. I am not on either sides but I still remain unconvinced by both arguments. > > The idea that we are the universe’s consciousness is that we are made out of the universe, so therefore us being conscious is the universe being aware. Sounds a bit whacky now I re read what I just put but I’m not expressing my views, just my interest in others views. > > The timewave zero theory is really what I want to hear about, anyone know about it? I’m struggling to understand it but I think I get the point. Can anybody explain? Well lets’ give this way more attention than it deserves. Law of Attraction (the stupid one) : By thinking consistently about a specific outcome that specific outcome will occur. Basically you can’t quantify the consistency and you can’t determine the outcomes align with original intent. The only evidence offered up is anecdotal in nature and skewed by selection bias. You can’t utilize the model to predict outcomes, making the “theory” unfalsifiable. So basically it is feel good crap, or nonsense if you’re feeling particularly delicate today. Timewave zero is gibberish. Have you read this piece from the Wikipedia page on McKenna? > [@](#): > > “What is happening to our world is ingression of novelty toward what Whitehead called “concrescence”, a tightening gyre. Everything is flowing together. The “autopoietic lapis”, the alchemical stone at the end of time, coalesces when everything flows together. When the laws of physics are obviated, the universe disappears, and what is left is the tightly bound plenum, the monad, able to express itself for itself, rather than only able to cast a shadow into physis as its reflection. I come very close here to classical millenarian and apocalyptic thought in my view of the rate at which change is accelerating. From the way the gyre is tightening, I predict that the concrescence will occur soon—around 2012 AD. It will be the entry of our species into hyperspace, but it will appear to be the end of physical laws accompanied by the release of the mind into the imagination.”[29] Basically, things get more integrated, and consequently novel, as the universe is drawn to its end point. Somehow, by some agent, in some way, at some time though around 2012 is the typical date given. Given spacetime expansion and basic entropy, thing will not get more connected and so will not become more novel and so will not coalesce at the autopoietic lapis at the end of time. For kicks go read [Fashionable Nonsense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense). Think of it as an innoculation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dopers-are-we-all-one-are-we-the-universe-experiencing-itself-subjectively/640894.md?page=2)